is it ethical? (reselling tickets for hot items)

[mysticmage]

Let's just say it is not Christian. You are making people behind you suffer and get there more early (missing their Thanksgiving) because of you needing a quick twenty bucks. With all due respect, I believe these people need a bit better for a job. If only people who went there with wanting to buy the item for their own personal use and not resell it/the ticket, Best Buy would be much calmer and people wouldn't have to miss and/or change the date of your Thanksgiving just to go wait in line.

[jtolli]

Oh, and about an earlier post about people being arrested for scalping tickets/vouchers. Scalping is defined as selling something (tickets) more then their face value. The Best Buy vouchers for the Doorbusters have no value, so its not scalping. I would love to have them falsely arrest me for scalping tickets and trying to sell them for $50, because they would have a lawsuit worth a helluva lot more then $50 on their hands.

 

Also, another thing. Does Best Buy have some policy that states that people waiting in the line for Black Friday sales are not allowed to sell the vouchers that they waited over 12-15+ hours to get? I seemed to miss that one as Best Buy likes to enforce it as a rule.

So if the tickets have no value, then selling them for a penny is selling them for more then their face value.

 

They do not have to have a policy that says selling tickets is illegal. You are on private property and they can tell you to leave their property whenever they want, for whatever reason. If you refuse you are then trespassing and they can have you arrested. Your are king on your property, and can make your own rules, including making them up as you go. As long as you don't break any laws when you make your rules, you can do almost anything you want.

 

I think it's just a matter of doing what's right or wrong. People can make the argument that they have stood in line all night, or two nights, so that earns them the right to do whatever they want with the tickets. But keep in mind the purpose of the Black Friday sales, and the ticket systems. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to buy the door buster items. This should be driven by your desire to have the item, and not the desire to make money (either from the ticket or from re-selling the item). If the stores endorse people selling the tickets, or re-selling the merchandise, then that weakens the stores promotion. Eventually if it keeps happening, then people will slowly stop going to that store on BF. Why bother because you have to get there two days in advance to get a ticket? If you get there "late" you have to pay someone else for the ticket, so you’re paying more than the advertised price for the item anyway. Also, if more money is going to be paid, I'm sure the store would like to have that money. Many moms and dads don't have the luxury of being able to spend days in a line just to get their kid a present. So you are saying they should be punished for that by having to pay more, or that they should pay you to stand in line for them? How about this, they don't pay you, you only stand in line for the items you really want, and can afford. Can you imagine how that would change the dynamics of the system if everyone played by those rules? Then maybe the lines wouldn't start forming two days before the sale starts as there would be no major financial motivation to stand in line; you would consider your time more valuable than that.

 

Again, it's a right or wrong issue. You can play the, "you can't sop me from doing that" game if you want, but you are ruining the spirit of the sales. Eventually the sales will dry up and go away, and you will say "don't blame me; I was just playing the system".

 

Also, I wonder if the tickets say they are the property of Best Buy and must be surrendered upon request? If so, then that gives them even more right to take your ticket and boot you off of their property.

[lupajunie]

Let's just say it is not Christian. You are making people behind you suffer and get there more early (missing their Thanksgiving) because of you needing a quick twenty bucks. With all due respect, I believe these people need a bit better for a job. If only people who went there with wanting to buy the item for their own personal use and not resell it/the ticket, Best Buy would be much calmer and people wouldn't have to miss and/or change the date of your Thanksgiving just to go wait in line.

I do agree that it's not very Christian-like in the aspect of kindness towards others. But, first of all people who go there have things they would like to buy I'm sure... they wouldn't just go there to sell tickets. Also, the lines are going to start early regardless of ticket sellers..... that's just a fact. See if the people infront of you or at the beginning of the line sell tickets.... chances are some will but some won't which means they're not there because they wanted to sell tickets.

[mysticmage]

I do agree that it's not very Christian-like in the aspect of kindness towards others. But, first of all people who go there have things they would like to buy I'm sure... they wouldn't just go there to sell tickets. Also, the lines are going to start early regardless of ticket sellers..... that's just a fact. See if the people infront of you or at the beginning of the line sell tickets.... chances are some will but some won't which means they're not there because they wanted to sell tickets.

I'd like to look at this thing you said a little bit more thoroughly...

 

"See if the people infront of you or at the beginning of the line sell tickets.... chances are some will but some won't which means they're not there because they wanted to sell tickets"

 

There are countless other ways to make profits even not selling tickets. Moreover, people who use forums such as Gottadeal are not dumb. We know that if we do not get there by noon Thanksgiving day we have no chance of getting anything. Why don't we? Because we have to try to get there before or soon after the people who sell/merchant ticket/items get there otherwise we don't stand a chance. And with all due respect, at my Best Buy most people there who buy or sell tickets are people who don't have any one to stay with on Thanksgiving and have nothing better to do therefore ruin another person's Thanksgiving. So really, the only reason we get there early is to get there before those sets of people do. And moreover, when we get there before them, next year they will just come sooner.

 

It is not just one or two people, there are at least 50-60 people at my Best Buy who sell tickets or make another form of profit off of these items. You must consider if they have 10 $230 Toshibas, 15 $400 Sonys, 15 $200 Emachines, and 10 $150 Envisions, that is not even enough to feed all of them. Then what do the people who really want these items get? Nothing good. The only two options they have are to:

 

1.) Get there early (noon)

2.) Still get there early (5 PM) and still miss Thanksgiving earning spot #50 in line to find all your time has been wasted waiting there to get an item due to a person who is making a profit off of your distress by buying their ticket. Thus, you pay cash to miss Thanksgiving. Very logical.

 

I do not find it just what these people are doing and it is illegal.

[lupajunie]

I'd like to look at this thing you said a little bit more thoroughly...

 

"See if the people infront of you or at the beginning of the line sell tickets.... chances are some will but some won't which means they're not there because they wanted to sell tickets"

 

There are countless other ways to make profits even not selling tickets. Moreover, people who use forums such as Gottadeal are not dumb. We know that if we do not get there by noon Thanksgiving day we have no chance of getting anything. Why don't we? Because we have to try to get there before or soon after the people who sell/merchant ticket/items get there otherwise we don't stand a chance. And with all due respect, at my Best Buy most people there who buy or sell tickets are people who don't have any one to stay with on Thanksgiving and have nothing better to do therefore ruin another person's Thanksgiving. So really, the only reason we get there early is to get there before those sets of people do. And moreover, when we get there before them, next year they will just come sooner.

 

It is not just one or two people, there are at least 50-60 people at my Best Buy who sell tickets or make another form of profit off of these items. You must consider if they have 10 $230 Toshibas, 15 $400 Sonys, 15 $200 Emachines, and 10 $150 Envisions, that is not even enough to feed all of them. Then what do the people who really want these items get? Nothing good. The only two options they have are to:

 

1.) Get there early (noon)

2.) Still get there early (5 PM) and still miss Thanksgiving earning spot #50 in line to find all your time has been wasted waiting there to get an item due to a person who is making a profit off of your distress by buying their ticket. Thus, you pay cash to miss Thanksgiving. Very logical.

 

I do not find it just what these people are doing and it is illegal.

 

I do agree with what you're saying but I'm not entirely convinced that if there were no people there to sell tickets or make profit by selling that it wouldn't 'ruin' people's thanksgiving. Seriously, people want a good deal and year by year it gets earlier SURE by people who want to make profit but ALSO by people who just want to get their deal and want to ensure that by getting there earlier than the year before.

 

BUT just to bring this onto a different note.... who's to say thanksgiving has to be on a thursday? If you observe the holiday for religious reasons, ie. Christian, where does the Bible say 'Thou shalt celebrate thanksgiving on the second to last thursday of November'. No where am I right? As Christians we have freedom to celebrate THANKSGIVING everyday, right? So as far as people missing Thanksgiving... that's subjective to the person. If you celebrate it even just for gathering of family (which is the most popular reason) you can still celebrate it anyday you want. I'm not trying to be difficult here I'm just trying to prove a point that 'making people miss their thanksgiving' is all very subjective. BUT I do agree with you that in general ticket selling is greedy, period.

[mysticmage]

I do agree with what you're saying but I'm not entirely convinced that if there were no people there to sell tickets or make profit by selling that it wouldn't 'ruin' people's thanksgiving. Seriously, people want a good deal and year by year it gets earlier SURE by people who want to make profit but ALSO by people who just want to get their deal and want to ensure that by getting there earlier than the year before.

 

BUT just to bring this onto a different note.... who's to say thanksgiving has to be on a thursday? If you observe the holiday for religious reasons, ie. Christian, where does the Bible say 'Thou shalt celebrate thanksgiving on the second to last thursday of November'. No where am I right? As Christians we have freedom to celebrate THANKSGIVING everyday, right? So as far as people missing Thanksgiving... that's subjective to the person. If you celebrate it even just for gathering of family (which is the most popular reason) you can still celebrate it anyday you want. I'm not trying to be difficult here I'm just trying to prove a point that 'making people miss their thanksgiving' is all very subjective. BUT I do agree with you that in general ticket selling is greedy, period.

Okay... oh my, I almost forgot! My kids want it to be Christmas today and I don't have any gifts to put under the tree. I don't even have my tree up! What ever shall I do to remedy this terrible situation? And moreover, tomorrow is all of their Birthdays. I can't believe it hasn't even been a year yet. And after that it is Chanukah. I'm not even Jewish! Oh well, I'm free to celebrate it on any day I choose even if it is completely abrupt to the real meaning of the celebration. The real meaning of Thanksgiving was held by the Pilgrims whom were thankful for their crops not dieing and them living. It was more so a day of church and mass then a great feast. And I'm sure not once did they miss church while having to go wait in line due to some merchant.

 

Best Buy does not expect people to come and get a deal. Therefore, you will notice the 'We only have enough items for the first 10 merchants in line' written below every item. The real reason they even bother doing Black Friday is to get you there and hope you find something else you don't need but like while in the store. And as you said I could have Thanksgiving 'another day'... from a family of six siblings, I'd be doubtful I could even attempt to get this together.

[lupajunie]

Okay... oh my, I almost forgot! My kids want it to be Christmas today and I don't have any gifts to put under the tree. I don't even have my tree up! What ever shall I do to remedy this terrible situation? And moreover, tomorrow is all of their Birthdays. I can't believe it hasn't even been a year yet. And after that it is Chanukah. I'm not even Jewish! Oh well, I'm free to celebrate it on any day I choose even if it is completely abrupt to the real meaning of the celebration. The real meaning of Thanksgiving was held by the Pilgrims whom were thankful for their crops not dieing and them living. It was more so a day of church and mass then a great feast. And I'm sure not once did they miss church while having to go wait in line due to some merchant.

 

Best Buy does not expect people to come and get a deal. Therefore, you will notice the 'We only have enough items for the first 10 merchants in line' written below every item. The real reason they even bother doing Black Friday is to get you there and hope you find something else you don't need but like while in the store. And as you said I could have Thanksgiving 'another day'... from a family of six siblings, I'd be doubtful I could even attempt to get this together.

well I'm not a quaker so I don't celebrate thanksgiving for those reasons. Oh well I've given up on this topic, you failed to understand the concept I was giving you and I guess I failed to make you realize it. You can't tell me you haven't celebrated someone's birthday or have seen others celebrate it on a day other than their actual birthdate.... it happens all the time in my family... if someone's birthday is on a monday and not everyone can meet that day we just go ahead and celebrate it on a day that we can all come together. I haven't the energy or the time to explain my ideas further as I've already explained it enough. Oh well, Happy thanksgiving to you and to all.

[mysticmage]

well I'm not a quaker so I don't celebrate thanksgiving for those reasons. Oh well I've given up on this topic, you failed to understand the concept I was giving you and I guess I failed to make you realize it. You can't tell me you haven't celebrated someone's birthday or have seen others celebrate it on a day other than their actual birthdate.... it happens all the time in my family... if someone's birthday is on a monday and not everyone can meet that day we just go ahead and celebrate it on a day that we can all come together. I haven't the energy or the time to explain my ideas further as I've already explained it enough. Oh well, Happy thanksgiving to you and to all.

If you believe I'm trying to prove another point against yours therefore it lacks logic, I'm fine with that opinion. If you also lack the time and energy I will lack the effort to make a reply as long as before. Personally, I believe you have failed to see there is a meaning to each holiday and some can not be changed, due to not only things in History, but other conflicts. Enjoy waiting in a line on Thanksgiving.

[dad2trips]

Hot topic!

 

For me, I plan on standing in line a long, long time. I did last year and I will again this year. Heck, I'm already packed and ready to go, but... patience grasshopper.

 

Last year I was 20th in line at BB. I got everything I wanted. If I took extra tickets I had no intention of buying then perhaps the person - oh say 30th in line that arrived maybe 30 minutes after I did Thanksgiving evening would not get the item they stood in line for a long, long time (minus 30 minutes). What would I gain? 20,30 50,100 bucks? What do they lose? Alot of time for some guy 10 places in front of them to score a small profit. That is just not right.

 

I stand in line for family, friends, and myself. I can only assume the person behind me does the same.

 

Tim

[Lidstrom]

Basically, with me, I figure it breaks down like this... If you think it is ok to make a dollar any legal way you can, then this is ethical. If you have a different standard and think that people should not be greedy and the tickets should go to those who actually intend to buy a particular item, then it is not ethical. I suppose it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

 

Personally, I don't look to make a buck in every situation. I'm just not that kind of person. I get the feeling some people would take the last ticket for an item if they knew the person behind them really wanted it and then turn around and try to make at least a dollar off of them. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I operated that way, but anybody doing that obviously doesn't need or want my stamp of approval for the way they want to live their life. So go and do what makes you happy.

 

As far as claiming the income for your taxes, whether most people do it or not does not reflect what the law says. Reality is that you are supposed to claim the income you receive from selling things. Not doing so is probably illegal, whether most people tend to get away with it or not. If you're going to tell me that selling BF items on eBay or selling the vouchers is "just business", then I expect you to actually follow business law. Otherwise, tell me it is "just a hobby."

[Guest cress115]

The question is "Is this ethical" not "Can I get away with it?"

 

Yeah you can get away with this but the definition of ethical is "conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behavior." The fact of the matter is that in our society it's the "early bird that gets the worm." It's not "the early bird that gets the worm and then sells it to the lazy bum that got up at 10AM instead of 12AM & screw all the people that got up at 12:20AM and didn't get a ticket."

[HAnderson]

If i had a ticket and then decided i didnt want it i would just give it to then next person in line that did. I mean we are all there for the same thing a good deal, right.

[dtdoda]

That is undeniably a very nice thing to do, right? But....(I hate to turn this into a philosophical debate but I just need to make this one point) who's to say what is good and what is bad? If you have a standard of what is wrong or right or good or bad where do your standards come from? or maybe Who? Is it yourself? If so then, you choose to say that we all have our own individual standards of right/wrong and good/bad and since the individual can pick their own standards whose standards do we live by? Our own is it not? Unless it's law, then it's all a big free-for-all and people can do and say what they please and if you think it's wrong then it's only wrong to YOU not everyone. I'm just bringing up this point because you can't say something is wrong or right if you have an individual standard of morals, and even the subject of morality.... where did morality come from? Human evolution? The only people I'll respect on here for saying it is possibly wrong or unkind to sell tickets is someone who believes in God because then their set of standards are not of their own but of God's. And if you want explanation on why God would say that, I could tinker around in my head to give you an answer. But even then I'm not convinced God would say it's wrong to do. If I choose to sell tickets then it's only because I need to make more money inorder to buy presents for others. So I'm 'taking away' from one set of people to give to another set of people.

 

Ah yes, moral relativism. That's worked so well for society so far hasn't it? Nothing is wrong anymore...

[sgklee]

Ethical or Not! I just don't care! Success! Got in line at BB at 3:30pm Thanksgiving. Was #'s 7 and 8! Stayed under lots of blankets! BB was Great! PortaPotties set up, rope set up! The store manager came by asking if everyone was doing alright about 11:30pm! 3:30am. tickets handed out. Got everything I wanted! Got 2 of the 42in Panasonic Tv's, one for me and one for my Dad. Got the Toshiba laptop for my wife. Got 700 blank DVD-R's. Got 2 LCD picture frames. 5 Nintendo DS games. Philips upconvert DVD player. Panasonic cordless phone set. Sold all but 4 of the remaining tickets for $330.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every single person that purchased a ticket was extremely appreciative! They went from depressed to thrilled in the time it took for them to trade me their money for MY tickets! Got home by 7:30am, slept for 2 hours then went to work! Can't wait till next year!!

[pumkinmomof2]

UNETHICAL. I've got another word for it, but I'll refrain from it. Why would you KNOWINGLY take a ticket and sell it when someone else waited perhaps JUST as long as you but you got the last ticket when the person behind you really wanted the item for thier kid?

 

I would call the police on ANYONE I saw doing that.

[bpr]

Why would you buy a ticket for an item? The seller is trying to make a buck so he can cut his losses. If he sells a ticket ($20-50 maybe? Depending on the item) he makes a profit. The person buying it is losing now. He just increased the price of whatever he bought. He could probably have stayed home and bought a similar item online for the difference he forked out. Ex. BB had a Sony laptop for $399. The #12 guy sells his ticket to someone else for (est)$50. He just made $50 to use on his other items. The other guy just increased the price of his Sony to $450. He coud have bought a very comparable HP online for $450 and saved the hassle or got in another line at another store for more deals. Does that make sense?

[agrigar]

So I didn't do the right thing, I could have made money? I did have tickets for items I decided not to get since we managed to get both laptops. I gave them to the cashier

 

I got in line at 2 yesterday afternoon. I got tickets for everything I wanted. My son had to leave for work before we were able to check out so I was concerned they wouldn't let me pay for his laptop. I did ask the guy in front of me if they wouldn't let me ring up both laptops would he ring one up & let me pay cash for it, but they let me ring them up since I had to have the tickets to get them. However, son was in line with me until 5:45 & earned his ticket.

 

I would never sell the tickets. I've waited in too many BF lines to not do what is fair.

[bpr]

So I didn't do the right thing, I could have made money? I did have tickets for items I decided not to get since we managed to get both laptops. I gave them to the cashier

 

I would have handed over the tickets I decided not to use to the first person who wanted them, shake their hand and say' MERRY CHRISTMAS'!

[sgklee]

UNETHICAL. I've got another word for it, but I'll refrain from it. Why would you KNOWINGLY take a ticket and sell it when someone else waited perhaps JUST as long as you but you got the last ticket when the person behind you really wanted the item for thier kid?

 

I would call the police on ANYONE I saw doing that.

It's called Capitalism! And the police officers were standing within 5 ft. while we were making our transactions. When I left they laughed and asked if I got my TV's for Free! It's not illegal, it's not unethical, it is a fair trade of time for money.

[Lidstrom]

I would have handed over the tickets I decided not to use to the first person who wanted them, shake their hand and say' MERRY CHRISTMAS'!

Generosity. It is lost in this society today. Just because you can turn those tickets into cash doesn't mean it is the best thing you could do with them. Of all the places and ways I would hope to earn money, selling vouchers for doorbuster items at Best Buy just never makes it onto my list.

[Lidstrom]

It's called Capitalism! And the police officers were standing within 5 ft. while we were making our transactions. When I left they laughed and asked if I got my TV's for Free! It's not illegal, it's not unethical, it is a fair trade of time for money.

It's not unethical for you, obviously, but to claim that everyone has the same ethical standards as you would be a mistake. Do what makes you happy, but don't expect that everyone else approves of it.

 

Your story about the police doesn't mean much to me. When my wife and I were hit by a drunk driver and I had a full description of the driver, the vehicle, and the license plate number, they never did anything about it. We even had a witness. While this is a different police force, it is clear to me that they aren't a real arbiter of right/wrong. They selectively enforce laws. Besides that, if your ethics are defined by what is legal then you really have no ethical standard at all. Legal/illegal is the lowest standard available.

[chigg62]

Well i read all the posts and here is what happened at my store in my line.....the tent in first place offered to sell vouchers....the people in the back of the line (so far back in fact they wouldnt have gotten a door buster anyway), called 2 local news stations and during their interviews the female was saying how selling vouchers took away from her and her daughters xmas etc....then this same woman who raised all the fuss CUT IN LINE around 3am...i guess her "principles" only extended to what suited her after all...my opinion is everyone has the opportunity to get there early and if you wait in the heat or freeze in the cold the ticket is yours and your free to sell it if you like...in most cases if you sell a voucher someone is getting a deal they wouldnt have gotten anyway...i certainly sold some vouchers also...some for 50...some for 20...depending on product price...its no different than buying the product with your voucher and going home and selling it on ebay or selling it that same morning in the parking lot...i also gave away a couple as well...this isnt an ethics questions in my mind...its a whining complaint of those who simply wont put in the time an effort to get up and go get in line and then think they "deserve" something...

[Lidstrom]

its a whining complaint of those who simply wont put in the time an effort to get up and go get in line and then think they "deserve" something...

I waited for 9-10 hours last year and I could have had a ticket for just about every doorbuster. I got one ticket for the one doorbuster item I intended to buy. I walk the walk and it has nothing to do with 'deserving' anything or not being willing to put in the time. Tell yourself whatever you have to in order to justify your position, but don't project onto others the things that you do not know for certain. Not everybody with ethical standards higher than yours is some whiner with a sense of entitlement. Some of them just live a life not governed by the dollar bill and find behavior driven solely by acquisition of money to be a demonstration of greed.

 

It seems clear that no view can be changed in this thread, and I'm not sure that would even be desirable. People have to want to live differently in order to do so and not just read comments from somebody who does.

[bpr]

...its no different than buying the product with your voucher and going home and selling it on ebay

Don't get me started on Ebay:splat:. I can't stand these people selling laptops or whatever, just to make a buck. You see these on the auction sites with photos showig 20 Wii's. That is GREED! Yeah, they put in their time, but only to make money. They are not doing it to help 'you' get that laptop or Wii because you had to work or something. It's all about how they can make a buck. I wouldn't buy from one of them.

 

I'm beginning that about 30-50% of the people getting 'door-busters are' doing that. Drag the family, get one for yourself and three more to re-sell.

[chigg62]

All i hear in my head is the quote from the movie Wall Street..."Greed is good."....Look i wont debate there is a greed component in play if you will....but bottom line is once you have the voucher the product or products belong to you. Its not your job or responsibility to make sure number 45 in line gets what they came for....that job lies with them. Everyone has a fair shot and if a fair shot means camping out 48 hrs in advance so be it. I have been first in line at best buy and this i was 21st and the process was exactly the same: One voucher per person standing in line, in order, until they run out. That hasnt changed and its the essense of the program. Again, what that individual chooses to do with that voucher is strictly up to them. As i stated earlier, I have sold some, gave some away and passed over some. The free market is in play in this situation. You can call it greedy, unethical, smart business whatever. It is what it is. But my frozen toes tend to call the shots at 4am in the morning. Now, cutting in line, thats unethical lol... but i digress, must be the lack o sleep.

[chigg62]

Oh, and one more thing.....as far as selling on e-bay just to make a buck....When you sell anything, anywhere its to make a buck.....BB uses the door buster program to get you in the store to make an additional purchase, "just to make a buck". Its capitalism...Why do think they dont sell the door busters online...

[bpr]

Why do think they dont sell the door busters online...

I got the $299(AR) laptop online at CC. It was a DoorBuster;). But I'm not selling.

[chigg62]

Lol...tis cool as I am not buying....but i am napping now....have a good weekend.

[Lidstrom]

Oh, and one more thing.....as far as selling on e-bay just to make a buck....When you sell anything, anywhere its to make a buck.....BB uses the door buster program to get you in the store to make an additional purchase, "just to make a buck". Its capitalism...Why do think they dont sell the door busters online...

At least Best Buy has to report their income, unlike many of these fly-by-night black marketers on eBay will do. Regardless of what people may think of the tax laws, claiming 'capitalism' and "smart business" without claiming the income is anything but a real business. It's a gray market enterprise at best and black market at worst. A real business that operated like this would eventually be shutdown by the IRS.

[jrbriscoe]

the first bestbuy i went to there were 2 kids in line in front of me (i was 3rd in line) and thats all they were there for was to sell the tickets. Little punks. So i left went to the next bestbuy and was #1................oh yea