Official Black Friday HDTV Discussion Thread

[Brad]

As always, we have several dedicated threads for the hotter items each Black Friday. Please try to keep all discussion related to these items in their official threads. Other threads posted will likely be merged into this main thread.

[Pnambic]

I always like to reference this chart for this thread (and the dozen or so other ones that will pop up when people make separate threads instead of tacking on to this one because they just can't follow directions...)

 

Here's a great read:  http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/12/resolution_chart.jpg

 

So to everyone looking to buy a new TV - Please go and use your trusty old measuring tape and measure how far it is from where your head is when you're watching TV to where the screen will be.  Find that number on the left side of this chart.  THEN you can slide across the chart and determine whether you should really dole out the bigger bucks for a 1080p set over a 720p one.

 

A quick check would show that from 10 feet away, looking at a 50 inch screen, your human eyes will not be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, so why spend more money on something you don't need?  If you're looking at a 40 inch screen, you'd have to be closer than 8 feet away to even begin to see a difference.

 

Also, still, almost nothing is broadcast in native 1080p.  There are some pay-per-view events, but none of the major networks do and chances are they never will.  The difference between 1080p and 720p just doesn't justify the investment in technology it would take to upgrade all of their stations with new cameras and such.  They might eventually go to 4k, but that's probably still years away.  Yes, I know that some people will hit display on their TV and it will say 1080p and some providers advertise 1080p but their cable box is just taking 720p signals and scaling them up.  And unless you're taking the signal over the air (like with an old style antenna), the digital signal from Dish, DirecTV, Comcast, Charter, Xfinity, FiOS, or whomever has been compressed as well.  So the only way you're getting true 1080p material is via Blu-ray, some xBox/PS3/4 games or you could potentially stream it from pirate sites if you're so inclined.

 

Also, there's a reason all the best TVs on Consumer Reports' lists are Plasma.  Plasma, on average, offers better depth of color.  The darks are darker, making the brights look brighter.  When properly calibrated, a plasma screen, again on average, will almost always provide a more lifelike and amazing image than LCDs or LED LCDs costing much, much more.  (OLED LCD's may be a different story.)  They also provide wider viewing angles.  It used to be that LCD's had less glare, but the screen coatings they used to cut the glare also cut image quality so over the last few years, the LCD advantage in glare has been lessened, though truthfully, it is still there.  Plasma HDTVs do use more energy, but we're talking about $20-$40 a year or so on average and it varies greatly by set and the screen settings you've employed.  And Plasma's are always 600Hz while LCD's and LED LCDs range from 60Hz to 240Hz.  If you're watching talking heads all day on TV, then you may not notice a difference.  But if you're watching sports of almost any sort, you WILL be able to see the difference between 600Hz and 60Hz.  Tracking items like soccer balls, hockey pucks, baseballs are noticeably sharper on 600Hz.  And when you're actually able to notice the bits of ground flying off the cleats of a football player sprinting down the field, you'll know you're watching 600Hz.

 

Bottom line, 1080p IS better than 720p...at showing 1080p material.  But if you don't have any 1080p material, or not a lot of it, it probably doesn't make sense to lay down the extra dough for 1080p.  I'm not saying don't buy a 1080p.  I'm saying don't go out and fall for the marketing and think you HAVE to have a 1080p.  If there's a 720p in the same size and roughly of the same quality, it's probably the better deal.  And Plasma is almost always a better screen than LCD or LED LCD. 

 

My prediction is a 50" Panasonic Plasma for less than $500 will be the best bang for the buck for MOST people this year.  $400 would be awesome.

 

 

Ok, who wants the soapbox next?

Edited September 27, 2013 by Pnambic

[len_mullen]

I'll second your enthusiasm for plasma with the caveat that the glass screens are heavier and tend to be more reflective than LCDs or LEDs.

 

Rereading this, I don't think much has changed in five years.  720p is still available.  3D never caught on.  Plasma looks best.  Judder and motion blur are still problems.

 

My sage advice to people looking to buy a hidef TV is to document your viewing positions (distance and angle) noting windows, capture some typical programming onto a tablet or device with hdmi out, and go watch some tv.  Pull a chair in front of a television, plug in your device, and see what you think.  If you have a chair off to the side of your television, sit at that angle -- LCDs do not look as good from an angle.  Once you have a list of great looking sets, check deal sites for best recent prices and review sites for comments on reliability and performance.

 

Set up price watches for sets you are interested.  When the right price pops up, buy the tv.  You can price adjust or return/rebuy if a better deal comes along.

 

Also, my plasma came bundled with a HTIB.  The plasma in my bedroom has a soundbar.  The rest of our sets use integrated speakers.  I recommend a soundbar.  They sound very good and have a small footprint and price tag.

 

Finally, pay attention to the number and variety of connections.  If you are going to plug in a VCR, a BD player, a video console, and a streamer, make sure you have the right connections.  The chromecast can be powered by a usb connector on the back of the set.

 

Happy shopping!

[dakotadenise]

I'd like to get my kids each a tv/dvd combo for christmas, on the smaller side, say 19 inches.   How low can I expect these to get?  

[ItsMeD]

I'm on the lookout already. I just bought a home and need a new TV for the living area. Im going led because there is a window right next to it which let's in a good amount of light. Yes, plasmas have improved in this respect, but its the one area which LEDs will continue to win out. I'm leaning heavily towards the 60 inch vizio smart led. Its on sale now at most places for about $900 (I don't really NEED smart features since my ps3 will be connected to it, however its just convenient).

The one thing holding me back is that there may be better deals coming. I prefer the image on the 60 inch sharp led, but I can't justify the $200 o $300 price difference. But if it drops as we approach black Friday or for black Friday I'd much prefer that. I may wait till later in the month to purchase the TV, so that way I will gave at least a 30 day window to see the ads and make a decision . what to do, what to do! Lol

Edited October 1, 2013 by ItsMeD

[magickallight]

Hubby got me a 32" refurbished Vizio smart TV with Wi-Fi from Woot.com and I LOVE it! Just hit a button and Amazon or Netfix movies are right there! I am looking for a really good price on another for my mom for Christmas... already seeing some nice prices, though... VERY tempting!

[Pnambic]

I'm on the lookout already. I just bought a home and need a new TV for the living area. Im going led because there is a window right next to it which let's in a good amount of light. Yes, plasmas have improved in this respect, but its the one area which LEDs will continue to win out. I'm leaning heavily towards the 60 inch vizio smart led. Its on sale now at most places for about $900 (I don't really NEED smart features since my ps3 will be connected to it, however its just convenient).

The one thing holding me back is that there may be better deals coming. I prefer the image on the 60 inch sharp led, but I can't justify the $200 o $300 price difference. But if it drops as we approach black Friday or for black Friday I'd much prefer that. I may wait till later in the month to purchase the TV, so that way I will gave at least a 30 day window to see the ads and make a decision . what to do, what to do! Lol

 

For clarification, LED's aren't immune to glare.  They just generally have employed screen coatings (which can hurt image sharpness) and have enough brightness to handle them better.  The better option for you might be in spending a little money on some quality shades and eliminate the glare issue altogether.  This of course depends on the number of windows and the amount of light coming in them.

 

In my family room, I have a whole wall of windows from about 6 inches above the floor to a foot below the ceiling - 12 feet of them.  These windows look out into my back yard facing almost due north.  Luckily for me my backyard is pretty heavily shaded and when I bought the house it came with some real nice cloth honeycomb blinds.  But I've found that having my seating facing away from the windows or perpendicular to it, there is no issue.  The rear of my family room is open to my large eat-in kitchen which often has a lot of light.  But again, I mounted the TV on an articulating wall mount above my fireplace which allowed me to play with the setup (tilting it) until I found an angle that pretty much eliminated all glare issues.  LED still might be the best solution for you - just don't forget that most times you can tackle the glare issue at its source (well....not at the sun directly... ) which will help ANY TV, plasma, LCD or LED, look better through of your effort.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Pnambic

[Pnambic]

I'll second your enthusiasm for plasma with the caveat that the glass screens are heavier and tend to be more reflective than LCDs or LEDs.

 

Rereading this, I don't think much has changed in five years.  720p is still available.  3D never caught on.  Plasma looks best.  Judder and motion blur are still problems.

 

My sage advice to people looking to buy a hidef TV is to document your viewing positions (distance and angle) noting windows, capture some typical programming onto a tablet or device with hdmi out, and go watch some tv.  Pull a chair in front of a television, plug in your device, and see what you think.  If you have a chair off to the side of your television, sit at that angle -- LCDs do not look as good from an angle.  Once you have a list of great looking sets, check deal sites for best recent prices and review sites for comments on reliability and performance.

 

Set up price watches for sets you are interested.  When the right price pops up, buy the tv.  You can price adjust or return/rebuy if a better deal comes along.

 

Also, my plasma came bundled with a HTIB.  The plasma in my bedroom has a soundbar.  The rest of our sets use integrated speakers.  I recommend a soundbar.  They sound very good and have a small footprint and price tag.

 

Finally, pay attention to the number and variety of connections.  If you are going to plug in a VCR, a BD player, a video console, and a streamer, make sure you have the right connections.  The chromecast can be powered by a usb connector on the back of the set.

 

Happy shopping!

Excellent additions.  Especially the connections advice.

And to those who don't have or want a home theater sound system (you're really missing out by the way), a sound bar, especially those with separate subwoofers, can really make a big difference.

[tyreejames]

I'm on the lookout already. I just bought a home and need a new TV for the living area. Im going led because there is a window right next to it which let's in a good amount of light. Yes, plasmas have improved in this respect, but its the one area which LEDs will continue to win out. I'm leaning heavily towards the 60 inch vizio smart led. Its on sale now at most places for about $900 (I don't really NEED smart features since my ps3 will be connected to it, however its just convenient).

The one thing holding me back is that there may be better deals coming. I prefer the image on the 60 inch sharp led, but I can't justify the $200 o $300 price difference. But if it drops as we approach black Friday or for black Friday I'd much prefer that. I may wait till later in the month to purchase the TV, so that way I will gave at least a 30 day window to see the ads and make a decision . what to do, what to do! Lol

We got the Vizio 65 inch smart LED last Black Friday; it's in our basement between 2 windows. Depending on the time of day they both let tons of light in. It's a pretty nice set & we paid $899 for it I believe.

[jesusluvu]

I'd like to get my kids each a tv/dvd combo for christmas, on the smaller side, say 19 inches.   How low can I expect these to gets

 

 

Should be able to get one for no more than $120.00

Edited October 2, 2013 by jesusluvu

[nirvana4all]

60" display model at SamsClub 1080p, only 2 HDMI and a composite, was only $300 since it was last one and someone had turned the contrast all the way up so that picture looked bad until modified.   Keep your eyes open and remeber to check the clearance area each time.  Works great in a bedroom where all we need is a bluray player and a cable connection.

[Pnambic]

60" display model at SamsClub 1080p, only 2 HDMI and a composite, was only $300 since it was last one and someone had turned the contrast all the way up so that picture looked bad until modified.   Keep your eyes open and remeber to check the clearance area each time.  Works great in a bedroom where all we need is a bluray player and a cable connection.

 

Sounds like an awesome deal.  Color me jealous.

[Pnambic]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-exit-plasma-tv-panel-031654835.html

 

A sad day for plasma lovers.  Panasonic has been one of the best plasma manufacturers by a pretty wide margin since Pioneer dropped their Kuro line many years ago.  But maybe it will drive lower prices for this last holiday season?  We can hope.

[Kanyon71]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-exit-plasma-tv-panel-031654835.html

 

A sad day for plasma lovers.  Panasonic has been one of the best plasma manufacturers by a pretty wide margin since Pioneer dropped their Kuro line many years ago.  But maybe it will drive lower prices for this last holiday season?  We can hope.

I read this earlier. Bummed me out. As you said though maybe I can get a great deal this year on a nice set. I missed getting a Pioneer by about 10 minutes when they went out. I walked into Best Buy and the guy in front of me was getting the last one at a really good price. It's time to replace our 50" Toshiba Plasma we bought in 06

[len_mullen]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-exit-plasma-tv-panel-031654835.html

 

A sad day for plasma lovers.  Panasonic has been one of the best plasma manufacturers by a pretty wide margin since Pioneer dropped their Kuro line many years ago.  But maybe it will drive lower prices for this last holiday season?  We can hope.

 

I prefer Samsung screens.  LG is coming on strong in the value space, but I think the reality of the rise of the Chinese brands is what prompted this.  Prices will continue to drop, but it won't be because there is one less supplier.  That's not how things work.

[rockpzazz]

So whats the thoughts on a 32" TV?  My mom wants one and I wouldn't be against getting another one.  I've seen a couple sub $200 deals, so would $120 be dreaming too much?

[ytmomof4]

So whats the thoughts on a 32" TV? My mom wants one and I wouldn't be against getting another one. I've seen a couple sub $200 deals, so would $120 be dreaming too much?

Last year Kmart had one for $99. My mom got it and it's been a good tb

[Pnambic]

I'd like to get my kids each a tv/dvd combo for christmas, on the smaller side, say 19 inches.   How low can I expect these to get?  

 

 

So whats the thoughts on a 32" TV?  My mom wants one and I wouldn't be against getting another one.  I've seen a couple sub $200 deals, so would $120 be dreaming too much?

 

 

First, I would never buy a TV/DVD combo.  Especially if your primary purchasing requirement is cheap price, you're asking for trouble.  If either of the items stops working, it could make both unusable.  Plus, DVD players were going for $10 last year.

 

It all comes down to the quality you're looking for.  With a 19 inch set, you're going to have to be sitting less than 3 feet away in order to differentiate between 720p and 1080p.  Anything farther away than that and it doesn't matter.  And mom always said to sit at least 6 feet from the TV, remember?    Also, with a kids set, depending on their age and likes, they're probably going to be more into cartoons and stuff than sports, so maybe you can "get away with" a set with a 60hz refresh rate.  The same goes if your mom is mainly interested in watching soaps and daytime TV like the View and Kellie and Michael.  Last year, Walmart had a 24" Orion 720p LED HDTV for $78 and an Emerson 32" 720p LCD HDTV for $140. 

 

If I remember correctly though, I think $250 was the magic number for what I would consider quality 32" HDTV's last year.  And I think most all the big places had one at that price point.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Pnambic

[gbeenie]

Also, keep in mind that "LED" is a misnomer. These are not sets that use OLED like some smartphones currently use (that would look fantastic, but isn't feasible cost-wise just yet); what they ARE are LCD TVs that use LEDs as the light source. Now, this does have some advantages: Brighter picture, and much longer life. However, LCD-lit sets suffer from the same motion-blur problems that regular LCD sets do.

 

Unless you're putting the TV somewhere where there's NO ability whatsoever to control the ambient lighting in the room, I still advocate strongly for getting a plasma set.

[gbeenie]

So whats the thoughts on a 32" TV?  My mom wants one and I wouldn't be against getting another one.  I've seen a couple sub $200 deals, so would $120 be dreaming too much?

Not necessarily. I got my partner a 1080p 39" LCD set for $269 last year (and I think it was a Cyber Monday deal). So, hope springs eternal.

[len_mullen]

Also, keep in mind that "LED" is a misnomer. These are not sets that use OLED like some smartphones currently use (that would look fantastic, but isn't feasible cost-wise just yet); what they ARE are LCD TVs that use LEDs as the light source. Now, this does have some advantages: Brighter picture, and much longer life. However, LCD-lit sets suffer from the same motion-blur problems that regular LCD sets do.

 

Unless you're putting the TV somewhere where there's NO ability whatsoever to control the ambient lighting in the room, I still advocate strongly for getting a plasma set.

 

LED is the biggest scam on the market.  You are correct that LED is the light source.  There are back lit and edge lit LEDs.  Back lit are better because they light small sets of pixels and can be turned off to deliver 'blacker blacks' to the viewer.  Allegedly, LEDs deliver a more appealing palette of colors as well.  Of course, blacker blacks and truer colors are only the most easily solved LCD problems.  Motion blur, poor viewing angles, and jagged edges are persistent.

 

Motion blur and jagged edges are due to the perfectness of the pixels.  Because LCDs are uniformly lit from edge to edge.  The lack of softness bothers the brain.  You can fix that in a brochure, but, in real life, you need much smaller pixels.  4k anyone?  The poor viewing angles are due to the fact that the CFL or LED shines through a honeycomb of LCD cells that filter the light to create colors.  The only fix is really thin LCDs or really bright LEDs.

 

That's why I always make people LOOK at televisions.  A 720p plasma will look better to most than a 1080p LED.

[dn325ci]

Small screens in the ads so far.  Looking for a great 70 or 75" deal on a Sony or Samsung or similar name brand.

[elena_398]

Im looking for a 46" or 50" LCD tv. Just for my husband's man cave. Will be hooked up to a blu ray player.  Hoping stores have a decent price before Black Friday so I can buy and not stand in line for a electronic item.   I don't need much this year as my youngest is 14.   My 19 yr old just wants gas card and money.   I currently own 4 Vizios in the house ranging from 42" to a 55". No problems so far. 

[gbeenie]

Elena, there are gonna be a lot of sets available in online specials.

[gbeenie]

Small screens in the ads so far. Looking for a great 70 or 75" deal on a Sony or Samsung or similar name brand.

Don't hold your breath. Those sizes are a bit too much of an up-priced outlier item to be common in BF sales at B&M stores. You're far more likely to have luck with Cyber Monday and online BF specials.

[swash_01]

I was able to grab the 42 inch JVC that Walmart had a few days ago to replace the set in my bedroom that conked out.  I didn't need anything too fancy and thought it was a good price.  Do you all think I could see an even better price on a Black Friday sale?

[jaymacfla]

I was able to grab the 42 inch JVC that Walmart had a few days ago to replace the set in my bedroom that conked out.  I didn't need anything too fancy and thought it was a good price.  Do you all think I could see an even better price on a Black Friday sale?

Yes, by at least $100. Do you still have the box? I just found this blurb which reinforces the Consumer Reports article:

 

According to Consumer Reports, Sanyo is a better performer than JVC, Sylvania, Philips, Westinghouse and RCA, and lower end LG models are better performers than Sanyo.

 

As far as reliability, the LCD brands to avoid are Westinghouse, Polaroid and Mitsubishi. These reliability findings are the result of analysis of almost 200,000 surveys completed by owners of 18 different brands of LCD TV

Note the comment about LG. LG TVs are solid performers and will probably be the ones to look for in this sale. They are my personal favorite.

[swash_01]

Yes, by at least $100. Do you still have the box? I just found this blurb which reinforces the Consumer Reports article:

Note the comment about LG. LG TVs are solid performers and will probably be the ones to look for in this sale. They are my personal favorite.

Really by $100!?!  Yep I'm hanging on to the box.  If they are that much cheaper I'll try to grab one and return this one.  I'm not into fighting in stores though lol.  Maybe I can get lucky online.  

[len_mullen]

Wasn't this pinned yesterday?  29 posts on HDTVs this year.  How times have changed.  No more debates about plasma vs LED.  No more 1080p vs 720p.  No more Kuro vs...the world.  No more discussion of 3D or 4k or OLED.  No more size matters jokes.

 

I guess flatscreen televisions are officially a commodity.  It may surprise you to learn that LCDs have been around since 1988, plasma was introduced in 1997, and even LED screens have been in the market for five years!  Here is a good primer for anyone actually shopping for a tv.  It was updated in April...

 

http://www.rtings.com/info/lcd-vs-led-vs-plasma

 

Plasmas have the best picture quality hands down and are cheaper. They are not very bright, so are only suitable for dark rooms. They also suffer from occasional but not permanent image retention and have a slight buzzing noise on bright pictures. Go for a Plasma TV if you want no compromise on the picture quality and if you will not have an heart attack if an image retention shows up for more than 2 minutes.

LEDs, while basically the same thing as LCDs, are the biggest sellers. Their picture quality are less good than plasmas but good enough for the most people. They also offer greater practicability. The majority of people should opt for an LED TV. Buy an LED TV if your TV is in your living room with a lot of windows.

 

 

Some really bad news for the industry: plasmas and LCDs/LEDs are holding up much better than predicted.  Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and Sharp all claim 100,000 hours for their panels.  Let's do some math: 100,000 / 24 = 4,167 days of continuous operation -- that's 11.5 years!  Even if you only turn the set off for eight hours of sleep, your screen will not reach it's 'half brightness' state for seventeen years.

Happy shopping!

[thehogsters]

Best deal I have seen is the 70" Vizio at Sam's VIP sale for $998.  I wonder if anyone will have at 70" Sharp for $1000 on BF?