bigjimslade Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 No, we won't go that far unless there are many more stores that do it. I'd urge everyone to either shop elsewhere on BF, or if you do go to OD, only buy the loss-leaders that they lose money on I have a feeling that more and more stores next year will do this or put out fake ads. Does the admins keep track of the server logs to see if anyone comes on the site from the top level domains from any of the major stores? It would be neat to find out if they do. Big Jim Slade
best4less Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 The closest Office Depot to me is 20 miles away. Needless to say I never shop there so no worries of them getting any business from me
happyrat Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I am not a lawyer, but I don't think OD can legally do anything. Any ad is not a trade secret, nor is it confidential. Ads are specifically designed to be published and thats what you did. Its just a threat.
MisterBill Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I heard on CNN Headline News that they told the sites to take them down at 5pm today.
NeepNeep Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I can't say I'm suprised. Frankly, I figured there would be numerous C&D's, with the amount of publicity GottaDeal has received. Publicity is great but there is something to be said for 'flying below the radar'. Today's lesson is when you see an ad scan download it immediately... might not be there 5 minutes later.
venerdinero Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I am not a lawyer, but I don't think OD can legally do anything. Any ad is not a trade secret, nor is it confidential. Ads are specifically designed to be published and thats what you did. Its just a threat.Neither am I, but no, it's not just a threat. It's extremely complicated and while they might not completely prevail in the end, they can afford the rather significant legal costs of the process, while many websites can't. It may not be right, but it is reality. Ads are designed to be published, but until they are, they are probably considered private or they are embargoed until the publication date. The part about Florida law could be interesting. I've not heard of those particular laws before. If the ads were sent outside of FL online or to a printer outside of FL, would those laws even apply? Also, that "Florida" paragraph was rather poorly written. It sure doesn't reflect well on the attorney, especially a SENIOR attorney. Did somebody's staff forget to proofread? Tsk Tsk Tsk. I didn't know that Florida published (insert struggling store name here)'s trade secrets, etc. Go figure!
mjmcca Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I heard on CNN Headline News that they told the sites to take them down at 5pm today. Take them down today when they will be out in the public by early next week. Seems like over kill to me.
albrandwood Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I have a feeling that more and more stores next year will do this or put out fake ads.Actually, as opposed to previous years, they were the only company to issue C&D letters ... Even BB who has ALWAYS sent out C&D letters let it slide last year ... I'm betting that next year, no-one is going to send out C&D letters ... I suspect that OD only did it cos they didn't have the doorbuster prices ... afterall, everyone was complaining about the cheapest (BTO) laptop costing more (shipping NOT included) ... the advertisied Toshiba (which is identical to the BB model, expect I believe XP Pro rather than Home) was $499AR as opposed to $379 no rebate. If you want to really PO officeDepot ... order the doorbusters online and then return the items ... When asked why? tell them that you "changed your mind do their pre-BF behavior toward BF forums" ... that waya) They sell a tonne of stuff at minimal profit. Pay UPS/Fedex/Whoever a bunch of money for shipping (two lots).c) Your reason will be documented on their computers.d) They will have a LARGE number of computers etc that will have to be sold in clearance, as open box items... which you could then buy even cheaper :-D Suggestions for this include: the 19"LCD, non-BTO notebooks, Garmin GPS, PDa's, etc ... THAT will have a bigger hit on the bottom line, than avoiding the store. And hopefully, it will get senior managements notice. Just remember to a) use a creditcard :-) and return within 2 weeks :-D so you don't get billed by your creditcard :-) @@
onion Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 Ill be posting the adscans as soon as I get enough posts to...???
erh12275 Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 Actually, as opposed to previous years, they were the only company to issue C&D letters ... Even BB who has ALWAYS sent out C&D letters let it slide last year ... I'm betting that next year, no-one is going to send out C&D letters ... @No Office Depot is not the only store that sent them out...they are just the only store to send a Cease and Desist here. Other sites also got one from Sears and Kmart. I am hoping that by next year all the stores will get over themselves and we will not see any of these.
onion Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 AD scans hosted. These are on my webserver at one of my domains so GD should have no probelm from OD. www.fatonion.net/odbf1.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf2.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf3.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf4.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf5.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf6.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf7.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf8.jpg Office depot can lick my balls...
albrandwood Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 The part about Florida law could be interesting. I've not heard of those particular laws before. If the ads were sent outside of FL online or to a printer outside of FL, would those laws even apply?With regard to the FL laws themselves, the example C&D letter may have been sent to a FL website etc. There are both state, Federal and International laws regarding copyright / tradesecret / etc ... and it may be that it was easier to threaten FL law, than Federal Law ... I'm sure that the Republican Govenor of FL would probably not worry about little details of juristiction ... (he's certainly never worried about the seperation of church & state issues). He's always shown himself to be in favor of big companies vs individuals. As for fighting these legal issues, FatWallet.com (for one) spent over $50k in 2003 fighting these notices ...
albrandwood Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 AD scans hosted. These are on my webserver at one of my domains so GD should have no probelm from OD. www.fatonion.net/bfod1.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod2.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod3.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod4.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod5.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod6.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod7.jpgwww.fatonion.net/bfod8.jpgYou got your URL's wrong :-) www.fatonion.net/odbf1.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf2.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf3.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf4.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf5.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf6.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf7.jpgwww.fatonion.net/odbf8.jpg PS ... you may want to disable directory listing on your webserver :-)
daz Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 well I am one of the few people on the planet that have actually read the DMCA and they do have the right, since the ad was not released to the public, to sue anybody that posts it, however it would depend on the judge and spend as much time in court as napster has. DMCA laws are VERY vague and open to all kinds of interpretation, next years bf ads would be out before a decision was even close to being made. I don't understand why they say they will try to recoup any losses incurred by the posting of it....that's just retarted. If anything, they will get more sales by releasing it early, (and the controversy). Unless they fear because OD stores are so few and far between in most states that competitors will somehow manage to lower their prices to match or beat OD sales in the last 6 days before the sales?
Aliensniper Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 It takes too long to make and print so many ADs^
venerdinero Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 With regard to the FL laws themselves, the example C&D letter may have been sent to a FL website etc. There are both state, Federal and International laws regarding copyright / tradesecret / etc ... and it may be that it was easier to threaten FL law, than Federal Law ... I'm sure that the Republican Govenor of FL would probably not worry about little details of juristiction ... (he's certainly never worried about the seperation of church & state issues). He's always shown himself to be in favor of big companies vs individuals. As for fighting these legal issues, FatWallet.com (for one) spent over $50k in 2003 fighting these notices ...1 - yes it could have been sent to a FL based company or a company who's servers are in FL, but, given that EpotD FficeO has corporate offices in FL, I presume that is the real reason. Just like many "Delaware" corporations try to take advantage of that state's corporate laws. It would also be because many people outside of FL may not be familiar with those particular rules and therefore they may be more inclined to back down. 2 - I hope that you feel better now for venting your political frustrations, however, please note that you undercut your own credibility by misspelling the word "Governor" and by implying that the executive branch of government has anything to do with a private civil dispute which,should it proceed, would take place in the judicial branch of government between two private parties. With apologies to Guinness, BRILLIANT!! 3 - With apologies to Bartles & James - "thank you for your support". I do not believe that many websites can afford at least $50,000 every year. That was my point. It can also easily get much more expensive than that.
Nautical Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I think you can still repost the ITEMS in the ads (not the ads themselves) with a different brand name. You can put it something like Loffice Lepot? Thats what BFADS .net has done
venerdinero Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 Actually, as opposed to previous years, they were the only company to issue C&D letters ... Even BB who has ALWAYS sent out C&D letters let it slide last year ... I'm betting that next year, no-one is going to send out C&D letters ... If you want to really PO officeDepot ... order the doorbusters online and then return the items ... When asked why? tell them that you "changed your mind do their pre-BF behavior toward BF forums" ... that waya) They sell a tonne of stuff at minimal profit. Pay UPS/Fedex/Whoever a bunch of money for shipping (two lots).c) Your reason will be documented on their computers.d) They will have a LARGE number of computers etc that will have to be sold in clearance, as open box items... which you could then buy even cheaper :-D Suggestions for this include: the 19"LCD, non-BTO notebooks, Garmin GPS, PDa's, etc ... THAT will have a bigger hit on the bottom line, than avoiding the store. And hopefully, it will get senior managements notice. Just remember to a) use a creditcard :-) and return within 2 weeks :-D so you don't get billed by your creditcard :-) @@Bravo!! :clapping: First question - does EpotD FficeO have any "restocking fees" to be aware of?? Second question - does EpotD FficeO PM? If they do, then bring their competitor's ads into EpotD FficeO and purchase only the loss leaders from the other stores or EpotD FficeO's loss leaders.
kaykwilts Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 I know where the ad is still up on another site. There is some good stuff there.
venerdinero Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 well I am one of the few people on the planet that have actually read the DMCA and they do have the right, since the ad was not released to the public, to sue anybody that posts it, however it would depend on the judge and spend as much time in court as napster has. DMCA laws are VERY vague and open to all kinds of interpretation, next years bf ads would be out before a decision was even close to being made.But evidently you didn't carefully read the text of the C&D letter in question. I was expecting and looking for the dreaded DMCA reference, but I didn't see it. There is no mention of copyright infringement, only mention of trademarks, which would explain why some things get reposted on some sites with bogus store names. I'm not a lawyer, but I gather that trademarks are still governed by the specific trademark statutes, not the DMCA. I also gather that some people have tried, without great success, to extend the DMCA to trademarks. They have to threaten to recover their "losses" or else the lawsuit would essentially be a slap on the wrist - the financial part is the hammer.
mrvegasd Posted November 19, 2005 Posted November 19, 2005 This was not a "Cease and Desist" ORDER - it was a threatening letter from a corporate attorney. Appears unenforceable, doubt they would be able to properly serve this site if they tried to go forward in an actual court of law, unlikely a judge would issue an injunction, damages - what damages? Ridiculous.
albrandwood Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 Bravo!! :clapping: First question - does EpotD FficeO have any "restocking fees" to be aware of?? Second question - does EpotD FficeO PM? If they do, then bring their competitor's ads into EpotD FficeO and purchase only the loss leaders from the other stores or EpotD FficeO's loss leaders.Refunds Office Supplies: If you are dissatisfied with your purchase for any reason, you can return it for a refund, exchange, or credit within 30 days of purchase with your original receipt, packing slip or email confirmation to any of our stores; for delivery orders, call 1-800-GO-DEPOT (1-800-463-3768) to arrange a free pick up. Software: If unopened, you can return software for a return, exchange, or refund within 14 days after purchase. Opened software is non-returnable. Technology: Because technology can change so rapidly, notebook PCs, multimedia projectors, PDAs, handheld computers, and digital cameras can only be exchanged for the same item within 14 days of purchase. Desktop computers, monitors, printers, scanners, faxes, multifunction machines, and Configure To Order (CTO) computers must be returned in their original packaging with UPC codes and with all accessories within 14 days of purchase to qualify for a full refund, exchange, or credit. Some returns or exchange requests that don't qualify under Office Depot's return policy may qualify for service or repair under the appropriate manufacturer’s warranty. Call us at 1-800-GO-DEPOT (1-800-463-3768) to ask about Office Depot’s Performance Protection Plans or for help in locating the manufacturer. Furniture: Any stocked furniture item in new condition, unassembled and in the original packaging with UPC code, may be returned within 14 days of purchase for an exchange, credit, or full refund. Special Orders: Custom-ordered items, Manufacturer Direct items, and custom imprinted items are made to your specific requirements and therefore cannot be returned. Compaq Configure to Order Products For custom configured Compaq products, please contact Compaq's Return Center at 1-800-652-6672.so, avoid "notebook PCs, multimedia projectors, PDAs, handheld computers, and digital cameras" .. or any Custum ordered products. (I'd probably avoid the GPS just incase) stick to things like the LCD monitors, Furniture, Printers, LCD TV :)(Furniture should have a NICE cost for them to ship ) As for PM ... yes they do as long as they are identical products.. They will match instant discounts, but not Rebates etc. Low Price Guarantee How does Office Depot's 100% Low Price guarantee work?The prices advertised in this catalog are available for phone, fax, and online orders only. If you find a lower price on a new, identical product at any other office product or consumer electronics supplier within 14 days of your Office Depot purchase, please call us at 1-800-GO-DEPOT (1-800-463-3768), and we will instantly match the price. Please remember to have the advertisement ready to fax or email when you call. Does Office Depot price match all products?Yes-as long as the item is identical, including model number, components, and U.S. manufacturer's warranty. For wireless phones and other items with a service plan, the plan, provider, and other terms must be the same. The item must be in stock and available for immediate purchase at that price from an authorized U.S. reseller, which we reserve the right to verify. Which items and services are not price matched?We cannot match our third-party providers' products and services (e.g. Sprint, service, tax preparation, payroll services, and custom printing), special orders, items sold on Internet auction sites, or at local or special events (e.g. grand openings, closeouts, clearances, liquidation or anniversary sales). Also, we will not price match taxes or typographical errors. What if I find a lower price at an Office Depot store?We sell through multiple channels of distribution including catalogs, retail stores, the Internet, and contract delivery. As a result, prices may vary, higher or lower, in any channel at any given point in time. If you find a lower price in one of our Office Depot stores, another catalog, or on our Web site within 14 days of your purchase, we will instantly match the price. Items that are marked as "clearance" are only available at the clearance price when the item(s) are marked "clearance" and in stock in the store. Does Office Depot match other companies' prices when combined with instant rebates, mail-in rebates, gift checks,gift cards, or free or discounted items?We will gladly match another company's final net price after deducting their instant rebate. If they offer a product that comes with a mail-in rebate, gift check, gift card or an equivalent, we will only match the net price you pay at their point of purchase and will not take the mail-in rebate, gift check, gift card, or equivalent into account. If another company offers a product that comes with a free, or discounted item, we can only match the price you pay for the product at the point of purchase and cannot provide the free or discounted item or a credit for such items. How do Office Depot coupons and rebates affect Office Depot's price and its price match policy?Coupons, instant rebates, and mail in rebates offered by Office Depot will be deducted to arrive at a net price. For example, if you buy a product from us for $10, and we offer you a $3 rebate or a $3 coupon, the net price to you is $7. Should another company offer that product for $8, we would not match the $8 price, since your net price is already lower at $7. Sorry, we will not match mail in rebates from other office product or consumer electronic suppliers. Did you include delivery charges in the price match guarantee?Yes. When we compare our price to another company's delivery price, the equivalent delivery charges will be included. If the other company's delivery charges are not supplied, we add a minimum delivery fee of $7.95 to the other company's price. Delivery fees are subject to change without notice. Are quantities limited on price-matched products?We may limit quantities of price-matched items. In particular, we will limit quantities of such price-matched items when the other company limits quantities. If a price is advertised by another company "while supplies last", the price will only be honored if the competitor still has the advertised item in stock. We also reserve the right to limit quantities sold to customers and the right to prohibit sales to resellers. What are my payment options?We accept all major credit cards, including Office Depot Business and Personal credit card accounts, Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express. We do not accept cash or checks for delivery. However, for your convenience, delivery orders may be placed and prepaid at any of our stores. "Dollars off" coupons cannot be used as a credit card payment. Not valid for: purchases of Gift Cards, and wireless, satellite, Internet, or mailing/shipping services. Good for one-time use only-not combinable with other promotions offering "dollars off" or "percent off" the entire order, but is combinable with other sale items. Limit 1 dollars-off coupon per customer/business. What does the "Buy More and Save" icon mean?Buy More and Save prices are only good on items of the same size and color and when ordered in required quantities. Items and prices may change without notice. Is there anything else to know about pricing?Although we make every effort to avoid errors, we are not responsible for printing or typographical errors. Terms of this policy are subject to change without notice. Offers, coupons and sales available by phone, fax, or online only. Not valid for purchase from www.techdepot.com or for contract customers with store purchasing or procurement cards. Nontransferable and not for resale
albrandwood Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 2 - I hope that you feel better now for venting your political frustrations, however, please note that you undercut your own credibility by misspelling the word "Governor" and by implying that the executive branch of government has anything to do with a private civil dispute which,should it proceed, would take place in the judicial branch of government between two private parties. With apologies to Guinness, BRILLIANT!! "Governor" was a typo.As for getting executive branch getting involved in private civil disputes ... the name "Terri Schiavo" springs to mind...
missyjane Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 I'm not sure the reasoning behind the letter being sent, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a rep of OD and as for the "losses" they may incur. I think that it absurd, but nonetheless do you think that it is some sort of publicity stunt - has any stores request for removal been publicized by the media? I'm curious if they have confidentiality agreements with all those who handle their ad prior to it becoming public.
venerdinero Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 "Governor" was a typo.As for getting executive branch getting involved in private civil disputes ... the name "Terri Schiavo" springs to mind...typo - fair enough, as it happens to all of us (scary how many do spell that word incorrectly though) I'm just curious, was "juristiction" a typo as well? Schiavo was a part of what "big company" again? Sorry, after reading your initial post, I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up the sad case of Ms. Schiavo (which too many tried to exploit on all sides). Technically the executive branch in that case was attempting to fulfill what they felt were their legal obligations (even if politically or religiously motivated to do so). Many legal scholars feel that they were actually correct, but they argued it poorly. Even if one were to accept your obvious bias, the courts actually restrained the executive branch, making your point moot. Since this case would not at all involve the executive branch, I was merely reacting to what appears to have been an unnecessary cheap shot at someone who has nothing to do with the case or the topic. I am willing to debate, discuss or argue such matters with you further, but this is neither the time nor the place. These are the holidays and this board is all about BF!! (not the other !) Back to the savings!!
venerdinero Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 This was not a "Cease and Desist" ORDER - it was a threatening letter from a corporate attorney. Appears unenforceable, doubt they would be able to properly serve this site if they tried to go forward in an actual court of law, unlikely a judge would issue an injunction, damages - what damages? Ridiculous.I don't think anyone here mistook it for an "Order", I believe that we merely called it a C&D letter. I think you make many valid points, as I also questioned some things from the posted letter. However, this is supposedly an example sent to another site, not necessarily the one sent here. While I question the merits, I also don't believe that you can summarily dismiss their entire argument. Just curious, what makes you think that they couldn't properly serve this site? <notices Brad & RossMan running for cover> :lolrun:
kranky Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 I can't imagine why anyone would second-guess Brad and RossMAN for doing what they did. It's real easy to tell someone else to stand up to a corporation when you aren't the one on the hook for legal fees. If Brad and RossMAN feel the wise thing to do is to take the ad down, so be it. Let any animosity be directed at the company who started the commotion.
mee081224 Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 hey if anyone has them can they pm me, i think the best thing to do is, once brad puts it up you download it, then anyone pm who is not affilaitied with the website should pm others with it, and we should get a phone # to yell at od another thing, not shopping there doesnt hurt them, buying crap they lose money hurts them, so Go all buy there most expensive things that they lose major money that will make them not screw with us, nm i found the guys server who just doesnt care i must 2 things about this bravo #2 at least this is a 99% chance these are totally real ads with no changing like walmart, i mean OD isnt smart like walmart who placed their ad out first to test the waters, OD was just a threat but u have to comply, it would of cost them too much to go to court
happyrat Posted November 20, 2005 Posted November 20, 2005 Why do stores care if we post their ad FREE. If I owned a store I would love that. IF the add is posted everywhere FREE then they don't have to pay to mail it out or put it in the paper. What's better than free advertising? I think a few lost sales before BF is cheaper than thousands of $s to print and publish.
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