Jump to content

Official Black Friday TVs (HDTV & 4K) Discussion Thread

Brad

By Brad
in 2015

 Share

Recommended Posts

Kanyon71

Kanyon71

Posted
Posted

This would be the worst reason to spend on a 4k television.  Going forward, sets will be better and less expensive.  I would also argue that it costs more than $200 to move from comparable 1080p to 4k sets.

 

When you go to buy your television, set a budget and buy the one that looks best with the features you want at that price.  If that set happens to be 1080p, don't fret.

 

When you are looking at sets, watch television not the demos they are running.  I used to bring a couple BDs with me.  The guys in the Magnolia room knew me by name.  A few times, I have purchased two televisions because I was not sure which I liked better.  I always have my wife and kids independently rate the sets side by side after I fine tune everything.  It sounds crazy, but I have a house full of fantastic televisions at all price points. 

I should have stated if it is IN the price range you set then I see no reason to avoid. I don't think you should set out for 4K at all costs but when the prices come within a certain range of each other and both support the other things you want (i.e. smart and so forth) then why not go for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
latrischler

latrischler

Posted
Posted

Pnambic, or anyone else that is TV-smart... :)

I am not a TV watcher and don't know much about TVs.  We have 46" Sony that we bought in 2010 when it came with a "free" PS3.  it still works great!

My Senior parents still have a tube TV and would like a flat screen. I'm hoping to pick one up for them this year, preferably online.

 

They would like at least 32", maybe 40", and besides 1080 I don't think they need anything else, nothing fancy... 

 

What kind of TV and deal should I be looking for?  I'm definitely willing to pay a little more to get it online so I don't have to go out and also they live 2 states away!

 

Any advice is appreciated! THANKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites
racerfan

racerfan

Posted
Posted

Hi all

 

I am looking for a TV for the bedroom.  What do you think of the following in the Walmart ad

 

Hisense 55" 4K  Smart   $448.00

TCL 55" 1080p Smart  $348

 

It is for the bedroom, I need bigger (eyesight not as good) and I want it to be able to stream Netflix, Hulu, etc.

 

If anyone knows of another one that is out there, does not have to be a Smart TV (I can get a Roku or Fire Stick etc)  Please give me your opinions.  

SInce it is for the bedroom I really dont want to pay any more than the above prices.  DH already has a fancy 60" in the living room.

 

Thanks so much

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

Pnambic, or anyone else that is TV-smart... :)

 

I am not a TV watcher and don't know much about TVs.  We have 46" Sony that we bought in 2010 when it came with a "free" PS3.  it still works great!

My Senior parents still have a tube TV and would like a flat screen. I'm hoping to pick one up for them this year, preferably online.

 

They would like at least 32", maybe 40", and besides 1080 I don't think they need anything else, nothing fancy... 

 

What kind of TV and deal should I be looking for?  I'm definitely willing to pay a little more to get it online so I don't have to go out and also they live 2 states away!

 

Any advice is appreciated! THANKS

 

What are they going to plug into the TV?  (Roku?  Chromecast?  Amazon Fire TV? Apple TV?  DirecTV?  cable box?  BluRay?  VCR?  XBox? --> hey, my dad plays Wii and he's 70 :))

How far away from the screen do they sit? 

Do they still have good eyesight? 

How's their hearing?

How big is their current tube TV?

Is the space limited?  Does it have to fit in a TV cabinet?  Or would you hang it on the wall?  Or set it on a TV stand?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nirvana4all

nirvana4all

Posted
Posted

I'll be shopping for a 60 inch. Just started looking, actually hope I could get a good deal right before Black Friday.

A few years ago  I did at  Walmart for a smaller TV a week before Black Friday. ( Our Walmart is terrible that day)

 

http://www.bjs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?searchCategory=&currentPage=1&top_category=&langId=-1&productId=282611&pageSize=40&clubId=00&state=all&catalogId=10201&sortBy=&tASearch=&partNumber=P_164843692&storeId=10201&ddkey=http%3ASearch

 

60" Vizio e60-c3 standard 1080p tv, nothing fancy, real low price of  $697 w/ free shipping.  Try that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
racerfan

racerfan

Posted
Posted

I saw that earlier. What a deal. Its a 55inch Element 4k smart for $399.

How is Element as a TV.  Wonder if it will be online.  Target is an hour away from home. Walmart is one of the few stores we have in our little town along with a Kmart, Home Depot and Lowes.  

 

I was looking at the Hisense and the TCL in Walmart's ad because I am indoors waiting for the sale to start  LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tjhollis

tjhollis

Posted
Posted

How is Element as a TV.  Wonder if it will be online.  Target is an hour away from home. Walmart is one of the few stores we have in our little town along with a Kmart, Home Depot and Lowes.  

 

I was looking at the Hisense and the TCL in Walmart's ad because I am indoors waiting for the sale to start  LOL

 

Never tried a element or the other off brands. But from the reviews i read they all seem pretty decent. Yes i believe those deals will be online.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
thehogsters

thehogsters

Posted
Posted

It is good info but I do not agree with some of his placement. Look at the 65" tv he has the Sony 810 ovef the 850. I just made a trip to BB last night and that 850 blowes the 810 out of the water. Same thing with his placement of the samsung 7500 over the 8500. I mean for real? Is this guy blind? Im getting that 8500 at bb for $1999 on bfriday. You would have to pay over 3k for any tv even close to this one

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BobbyDouglas

BobbyDouglas

Posted
Posted (edited)

Are these the only 70in+ TV deals?

 

Anyone else shopping for a large tv?

 

 

BJ's WholesaleSamsung 75" Slim Smart 1080P LED HDTV UN75J630D

SearsSamsung 75" Smart LED HDTV

Sam's ClubSamsung 75" 4K Ultra HD Smart TV$2,398.00 Best BuySony 75" 3D 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV

Edited by BobbyDouglas
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

It is good info but I do not agree with some of his placement. Look at the 65" tv he has the Sony 810 ovef the 850. I just made a trip to BB last night and that 850 blowes the 810 out of the water. Same thing with his placement of the samsung 7500 over the 8500. I mean for real? Is this guy blind? Im getting that 8500 at bb for $1999 on bfriday. You would have to pay over 3k for any tv even close to this one

 

Did you take the time to read the actual reviews though?

 

The reason he places the 810 above the 850 is not the picture quality, its the mostly motion blur and input lag.  These things matter if you game on your TV or if you like to watch fast moving sports.  Turns out the sample 850 they tested was worse than the 810 in these areas.  Maybe it was a bad sample.  Or maybe it's endemic of the components used in the 850.  They can only report what they test.

 - Response Time was 12.5ms on the 810 vs 16.5ms on the 850.

 - Input Lag was slightly better at 35.7ms on the 810 vs 39.5 on the 850.

 - Gray Uniformity was also measured to be significantly better on the 810 (2% std dev vs 5% on the 850).

 - It's also mentioned that the 850 had a glitch in its upscaler causing poor image on 480P media.  It looks like this has been addressed in a firmware update.

 

Again, with the Samsung TVs, (which were scored almost identically by the way at 8.4 vs 8.3), again, the 7500 achieved a significantly better input lag measurement in Game mode vs the 8500 (21ms vs 37ms) and a slightly better response time of 8.9 ms vs 11.9ms on the 8500.

 

Just because a TV has a bigger resolution or a bigger number in the model number or a bigger screen or a bigger price tag, that doesn't make it automatically a better TV.  There are many aspects to defining the better TV and this site appears to have done far more work researching these things than just going to Best Buy and looking at them in the aisle.

 

 

By the way, I love how this site also reports the settings he found optimal for the TVs to help poor schmucks like me tune our own sets better.

How is Element as a TV.  Wonder if it will be online.  Target is an hour away from home. Walmart is one of the few stores we have in our little town along with a Kmart, Home Depot and Lowes.  

 

I was looking at the Hisense and the TCL in Walmart's ad because I am indoors waiting for the sale to start  LOL

 

One of my personal rules on the matter is if I can't find the TV on the manufacturer's website - or if I can't even find a manufacturer's website, then I won't even consider the TV.  Not looking for a couple hundred dollar paper weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
racerfan

racerfan

Posted
Posted (edited)

Did you take the time to read the actual reviews though?

 

The reason he places the 810 above the 850 is not the picture quality, its the mostly motion blur and input lag.  These things matter if you game on your TV or if you like to watch fast moving sports.  Turns out the sample 850 they tested was worse than the 810 in these areas.  Maybe it was a bad sample.  Or maybe it's endemic of the components used in the 850.  They can only report what they test.

 - Response Time was 12.5ms on the 810 vs 16.5ms on the 850.

 - Input Lag was slightly better at 35.7ms on the 810 vs 39.5 on the 850.

 - Gray Uniformity was also measured to be significantly better on the 810 (2% std dev vs 5% on the 850).

 - It's also mentioned that the 850 had a glitch in its upscaler causing poor image on 480P media.  It looks like this has been addressed in a firmware update.

 

Again, with the Samsung TVs, (which were scored almost identically by the way at 8.4 vs 8.3), again, the 7500 achieved a significantly better input lag measurement in Game mode vs the 8500 (21ms vs 37ms) and a slightly better response time of 8.9 ms vs 11.9ms on the 8500.

 

Just because a TV has a bigger resolution or a bigger number in the model number or a bigger screen or a bigger price tag, that doesn't make it automatically a better TV.  There are many aspects to defining the better TV and this site appears to have done far more work researching these things than just going to Best Buy and looking at them in the aisle.

 

 

By the way, I love how this site also reports the settings he found optimal for the TVs to help poor schmucks like me tune our own sets better.

 

One of my personal rules on the matter is if I can't find the TV on the manufacturer's website - or if I can't even find a manufacturer's website, then I won't even consider the TV.  Not looking for a couple hundred dollar paper weight.

LOL I agree for our living room but this is for the bedroom and don't want to spend too much.  I was hoping for a 50 or 55" not smart TV but seems they are all coming out

smart

Edited by racerfan
Link to comment
Share on other sites
thehogsters

thehogsters

Posted
Posted
Yes I read his review. I dont give 2 sh$ts about motion blurr, lag, judder, grey scale or video games. The number one deciding factor for me is picture quality. My wife and I stood at BB for an hour looking at these tvs. The 810 looked like crap beside the 850. The only tvs that looked better than the 8500 was the 9000, 9500 and lg oled.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
peppysfireball

peppysfireball

Posted
Posted

i refuse to buy the off brands. YOu pay for it in the long run. I have 3 samsungs in my house. 2 19 inchs in teh bedrooms and a 40 inch in the living room. Had them for 4 years for hte big one and 5 on the bedrooms wiht no issues. off brands don't last and have poor quality. I'd like a bigger one but i keep the bedroom tv's on all night and my husbnad says no to a bigger one as the light keeps him up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
latrischler

latrischler

Posted
Posted (edited)

PNAMBIC:  Their current TV they only have the Direct TV and a DVD player plugged into it.  Occasionally they will plug in the Wii, but only if the grands are visiting, and anymore they don't even play it. 

 

Their hearing is bad, vision is bad, and they sit fairly close (at least dad does). He has Parkinson's so he doesn't get up & move around much!
The current tube tv is around 30" maybe? Can't remember.  It is in a wood entertainment center that we 'll have to get rid of with a new TV.

 

The other day gottadeal posted a one-day TV deal at Best Buy ebay. Toshiba 40" Class - LED - 1080p - HDTV.   

 

Like I said, I don't know much about TVs, but it got decent reviews on Best Buy, so I decided to get it; no standing in line, shipped for free.  Hopefully it's good!!!

 

(p.s. I could not figure out how to reply with a quote, sorry)

Edited by latrischler
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

Yes I read his review. I dont give 2 sh$ts about motion blurr, lag, judder, grey scale or video games. The number one deciding factor for me is picture quality. My wife and I stood at BB for an hour looking at these tvs. The 810 looked like crap beside the 850. The only tvs that looked better than the 8500 was the 9000, 9500 and lg oled.

 

Well, you're not alone. 

 

There are plenty of people who couldn't care less about picture quality - all they want is the largest screen to impress their visitors.  Is their opinion right or yours? 

And there are those who couldn't care less about a .5% difference in picture quality so long as they get the TV with the 50% improvement in response time for watching sports or gaming.  Is their opinion right or yours? 

And how about those people who understand that the deeper the blacks a screen can reproduce, the better and more rich the color pallet?  Your opinion or theirs?

 

It's good that you know what you want so you don't waste your money on something you're not interested in.  But in my (ok, perhaps not too terribly) humble opinion (and I imagine many others), response time is important.  And I appreciate the effort this site went through to perform the tests they did and find value in their hard work.  I'm sure the 850 is a fine TV.  But the images I watch on TV (such as sports and video games) often move very quickly so motion blur and lag are quite important to me.  And it looks like the site did a very thorough job explaining their rating process.  So judging by those numbers, the 810 would probably suit my needs better than the 850. 

 

But in the end, if you like that 850, you go get it and make it yours.  Enjoy it.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted (edited)

PNAMBIC:  Their current TV they only have the Direct TV and a DVD player plugged into it.  Occasionally they will plug in the Wii, but only if the grands are visiting, and anymore they don't even play it. 

 

Their hearing is bad, vision is bad, and they sit fairly close (at least dad does). He has Parkinson's so he doesn't get up & move around much!

The current tube tv is around 30" maybe? Can't remember.  It is in a wood entertainment center that we 'll have to get rid of with a new TV.

 

The other day gottadeal posted a one-day TV deal at Best Buy ebay. Toshiba 40" Class - LED - 1080p - HDTV.   

 

Like I said, I don't know much about TVs, but it got decent reviews on Best Buy, so I decided to get it; no standing in line, shipped for free.  Hopefully it's good!!!

 

(p.s. I could not figure out how to reply with a quote, sorry)

 

Rock on!

 

I'm sure your parents will love it.

I'm sure you're aware that we measure TV screen size diagonally.  As luck would have it (or perhaps you did it on purpose), a 32in old tube style TV has a screen that's about 19in tall.  To get the same size SD image on the screen (with those black padded sides like if they were playing it from their DVD player), it would require a 39in HDTV.  Well done.

Edited by Pnambic
Link to comment
Share on other sites
thehogsters

thehogsters

Posted
Posted

Well im sure I dont have the fine eye if an expert but I saw no lag on any of the 4 tvs. The BB bf tvs are already on sale. I just ordered the Samsung 8500.

 

fyi, lots of tv geeks on the AVSforums and not one seems to think the Sony 810 is a better tv than the Sony 850. I only found a few that thought the Samsung 7500 was better than the 8500. Point is my opinins of these tvs are with the vast majority.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nirvana4all

nirvana4all

Posted
Posted (edited)

Do your research, check it out for yourself, and if you like it buy it.  If you want to know where to go for research, ask and someone here will point you where to find numerically graded info.

After that, your opinion is just that.  Let's go shop!!!

Edited by nirvana4all
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

HAHA!

 

A friend of mine just referenced the Spinal Tap scene where Nigel is earnestly explaining his band's secret of success - that their amps go up to 11, instead of 10 like most everyone else.

 

This is such a perfect analogy for 4K TVs this year....HAHAHA

 

Nigel: This is the TV I bought at Black Friday this year and it's very, very special, because, if you can see this sticker on the side....it says 4K.  Look, right across the box.  4K on the front, 4K on the back, 4K on the sides. 

Interviewer: Oh, I see.  And most TV's go up to 1080P.  Does that mean its better?

Nigel: Well its bigger.  It's not 1080P.  You see, most blokes, they be watching at 1080P.  Where can you go from there?  Nowhere!  But when you want that little extra push, this TV goes all the way to 4K.

Interviewer: But there is no 4K media to speak of...and that 4K TV doesn't support chroma 4:4:4 or HDCP2.2 or UHD.

Nigel: <pause>...this goes to 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

Hey listeners, here's a little update from your uncle Pnambic.

 

I've been digging a lot to find the true refresh rates of a lot of these 4K TVs and I thought I'd share the gist.

 

4K media is hard to come by; true 4K media almost non-existant.  And to my knowledge, there isn't even a standard being discussed, let alone agreed on for 120Hz 4K media.  So what 4K media you can find is mostly 24 or 30 Hz, and some is 60 Hz.  The standard is leaning toward 60 Hz, but the marketplace needs major upgrades in hardware in place before that will be commonplace.  What this means is that 4K screens have not been designed to display 120 Hz 4K material.  Some only handle 24/30 Hz.  Some can handle 60 Hz.  Unfortunately, this also means that a lot of the 4K TVs out there have therefore limited ALL refresh rates on the TV to 60 Hz.  This means that even the 720P, 1080i  and 1080P material you watch will also only be displayed at 60 Hz.  So, if you're not real careful, "upgrading" your 1080P 120 Hz or 240 Hz TV to a 4K TV may degrade your viewing experience on 99.99% of the material you'll be able to watch on the TV.

 

TV manufacturers know it would be a hard sell to convince a person who just spent $1000 on a 240 Hz 1080P TV two years ago to upgrade to a TV that displays 1080P material WORSE than their current TV but can maybe show 4K material if you can find it.  The trade-off doesn't make much sense even to complete newbies.  So they've made up new measurements such as TruMotion (LG), MotionRate (Samsung), MotionFlow (Sony), SPS (Vizio), Clearscan (Toshiba), BacklightScan (Panasonic) and others.  What they're doing is just making up a number that looks like what you'd expect to see for the refresh rate and hoping you'll assume that's what it is.  Most of these numbers are actually TWICE the real refresh rate, some even more.  So when you see an LG TV with a TruMotion 120 plastered on the box, it may actually be a 60Hz TV. 

 

The good news is, many manufacturers are at least putting the real refresh rates in the product manuals.  So if you go to their websites and look them up, you can generally find the actual refresh rate there to help you make your decision.  But it requires that you play the part of educated consumer and dig it up.

 

For example, take UN60JS7000FXZA listed at BestBuy for $1299.

The BestBuy ad says "Motion Rate 120".  Most people assume that means a refresh rate of 120 Hz.

 

In the Samsung manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201509/20150914125600079/ENG-US_HMUATSCJ-1.315-0907.pdf?CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000006),

see the sections titled:

 - "Supported Resolutions for 3D Modes" pg. 150 (frequency column)

 - "Supported Resolutions for UHD Input Signals" pg. 151 (frame rate column)

 - "Supported Video Codecs" pg. 161 (frame rate column)

 - "Supported Resolutions for Video Signals" pg. 167 (display format column)

 

Do you see anything listed at 120 Hz anywhere?  Anywhere at all?  Nope.

Even 1080P is limited to 60 Hz on this TV.

Would you consider it an upgrade to go from your 120 Hz 1080P TV to this (for all intents and purposes 1080P) 60 Hz TV?  I wouldn't.

It looks like the entry level 4K TV's (most all of the best Black Friday deals) are by and large all 60Hz all the time.

 

Now, there are TV's that appear to be able to display 1080P (and lesser) material in 120 Hz or better while still showing 4K at 60 Hz.  Vizio in particular appears to be pulling this off in some of their $600 - $1000 Black Friday TV's.  They're the only ones I've seen so far in that price range (I've only looked at a couple dozen TVs so there might be others still).  I've never owned a Vizio TV, so I can't speak to them as a company in general, but this is something I would look for if I were in the market.

 

My point is, look it up.  Be an informed consumer.  While I think its silly to waste ANY money on 4K TV's right now, if you've fallen in love with the marketing that's been thrown about and are determined to be a "cool kid" and get a 4K TV this year, at least get one that won't be worse than your current one at showing 1080P material.

 

BTW, turns out upscaling 1080P to 4K isn't being treated as just multiplying the pixels by four - and the quality of upscaling varies by manufacturer and even by line within manufacturers.  That RTings website tests for upscaling at the pixel level and the results are interesting.

Again, a little research can go a LONG way here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted

I've always loved techno speak that the manufacturers put on their products. If your 120 Hz technology was actually 120 Hz you would just make it 120 Hz. 60 is not 120 don't have to be a match major to figure that out. :)

 

Yea, normally, I'd do a little personal boycott of the offending manufacturer - trouble is, it looks like they're ALL doing it.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jaymacfla

jaymacfla

Posted
Posted

Hi all

 

I am looking for a TV for the bedroom.  What do you think of the following in the Walmart ad

 

Hisense 55" 4K  Smart   $448.00

TCL 55" 1080p Smart  $348

 

It is for the bedroom, I need bigger (eyesight not as good) and I want it to be able to stream Netflix, Hulu, etc.

 

If anyone knows of another one that is out there, does not have to be a Smart TV (I can get a Roku or Fire Stick etc)  Please give me your opinions.  

SInce it is for the bedroom I really dont want to pay any more than the above prices.  DH already has a fancy 60" in the living room.

 

Thanks so much

I personally like the TCL over the Hisense, although i was at Walmart recently and saw a pretty decent picture on that Hisense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...