191 replies to this topic

[nikkilugi]

The US proposal calls for this reporting to take place only when people sell more than several thousand dollars worth of merchandise in a year.

That came from the article. It is true that you do not have to report earnings of $600 or less from resale as well. The Government is cracking down on the peddlers who are powerselling goods and not reporting the thousands they make. The government is also fighting to tax online goods as well. If someone is buying a Wii to sell it on ebay for $200 profit they can do so, and the ethical card would come in if they KNEW that the person behind them was a parent who can't get their children the gift, but coming from experience every line ive stood in on thanksgivings and black friday's, I always here people asking if they could sell that on Ebay and make money. So giving up your spot in line or ticket may be giving it to a ebayer or reseller.

The word ethical in business is not black and white. Is it unethical for Wal-Mart to charge $700 for a bundled wii? If you were in their shoes would you do it?, and remember that the shareholders are breathing down your neck. Like another person stated, it's a capatilistic society. These people are working five times as hard as any of us, standing in the cold for 3 days straight just to make $200. Questioning how the person will use their purchase or how the person may be "stealing" the gift away from your family is pretty selfish to me.

Well said. Why don't we talk about how some of businesses got started in the first place? There is a need and someone fills it. If someone is willing to pay for a voucher then the person selling is providing a valid service to someone.

It all comes down to how willing you are to get what you want. If you want that Wii or laptop then get to the store early enough to get a voucher. Then the people who are selling vouchers won't affect you. People need to plan ahead and act accordingly.

Of course the government is going to call online sellers "black marketeers". However the government has no concrete number on how much any one seller profits/sells. The government doesn't know how much someone paid for the items they are selling. The IRS is just pissed that ebay is making all of this money and so sellers on ebay must be making thousands and not paying taxes on it. Sure there are sellers who don't pay taxes - however like I said before there are TONS of legit sellers being responsible business people and paying their taxes.

[Lidstrom]

The US proposal calls for this reporting to take place only when people sell more than several thousand dollars worth of merchandise in a year.

I know that. My point is that it would seem to refute the concept that all the sellers are playing by the rules.

It is true that you do not have to report earnings of $600 or less from resale as well.

This is $600 or less for the entire year, right? Not all transactions of $600 or less.

If someone is buying a Wii to sell it on ebay for $200 profit they can do so, and the ethical card would come in if they KNEW that the person behind them was a parent who can't get their children the gift, but coming from experience every line ive stood in on thanksgivings and black friday's, I always here people asking if they could sell that on Ebay and make money. So giving up your spot in line or ticket may be giving it to a ebayer or reseller.

That wasn't the case where I was. There wasn't anybody around me that was talking about turning anything into cash. They were either buying items as gifts or addressing needs. May have helped that I went to a Best Buy in a college town where there were primarily students in line hoping to get discounted computers for use with school and parents that don't make a lot of money that saw a chance to get something special at a great price. We weren't a bunch of people trying to figure out how to make money out of it.

The word ethical in business is not black and white. Is it unethical for Wal-Mart to charge $700 for a bundled wii? If you were in their shoes would you do it?, and remember that the shareholders are breathing down your neck. Like another person stated, it's a capatilistic society. These people are working five times as hard as any of us, standing in the cold for 3 days straight just to make $200. Questioning how the person will use their purchase or how the person may be "stealing" the gift away from your family is pretty selfish to me.

Any business can have any ethics it wants to have. Just because many choose to compromise them, or not have any at all, doesn't make it impossible. I understand how hard it is for public companies to care about anything beyond the dollar bill because of the greedy way that Wall Street works, though. Just because greed drives the stock market does not mean that is the way things should be. You can be a capitalist without trying to make a buck in every situation in your life. It's the idea that you've got to make money on everything that had a hospital trying to convince my mom to pull the plug on my stepfather 6 months ago, and now he is at home trying to get his life back together. They determined his care was not cost-effective and decided he should be dead. When every action in the world is determined by how much money you can make on it, you're going to get a lot of unintended consequences. I know I am comparing apples to oranges here, but it always starts small with something relatively innocuous. Then one day it becomes an Enron type situation where any concept of ethical standards are tossed aside in favor of making more money.

I don't know that I ever suggested any of it was theft or that I have been denied anything. Something does not become the 'right thing to do' with me just because it is hard to do. I'm not sure I would ever buy into that logic. I don't really care if you think my ethical standards are selfish, although I cannot see how you ever arrived at such a position. I never once said that I should get something instead of them. You're just one more person who can't think outside of their little box. Just because I find something to be unethical or wrong does not mean I have ever been wronged by it or am seeking to benefit at their loss in some way.

[jrudy01]

Is anything that people are willing to pay for ok then, in your opinion? Does the fact that somebody is willing to pay for it make it a good thing to do without any other consideration?

That question would then be answered by saying are any laws being broken. Why can't i pay someone to go wait in line for me. how about a group of people tag teaming, one stays the other leaves for a little while, comes back and the next leaves.

[Lidstrom]

That question would then be answered by saying are any laws being broken. Why can't i pay someone to go wait in line for me. how about a group of people tag teaming, one stays the other leaves for a little while, comes back and the next leaves.

Maybe for you. I happen to think that determining your ethics by whether something is legal or not means you don't have any ethics at all, or at least the lowest standard available. Do what makes you happy. Keep in mind that I don't recall saying any of this should be illegal. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying I think it reflects poorly on those that do it and is below my ethical standards. If it seems like a great thing to do to you, then go do it. You obviously don't need or want my approval.

Rotating 1 person out of a group all night long seems fine. 1 person holding a spot all night for a group of people is something I would find objectionable. It also clearly goes against the 'working hard' argument presented elsewhere in the thread.

[jrudy01]

So if i am a 45 year old single parent with 2 young kids and can't get up that early to wait to get a ticket for a wii, you think it's wrong for me to pay a kid to go stand in line for me to get it.

[Lidstrom]

So if i am a 45 year old single parent with 2 young kids and can't get up that early to wait to get a ticket for a wii, you think it's wrong for me to pay a kid to go stand in line for me to get it.

I don't think that is a huge problem. Depending on how much you're paying them, it may not make financial sense. I don't have a problem with a 1-for-1 thing, as far as going in/out of the line regardless of whether somebody is being paid or not.

If you're paying them to hold your spot all night long and they are getting vouchers as well, then the gray area is beginning to get darker for me. However, as long as they are letting everybody know that you will be joining them later then it's not deceptive to those who are trying to keep up with the line. The real problem, to me, is when 1 person is holding spots for 5 or 6 people who roll up just in time for vouchers.

It is pretty clear that I have a different world view than some of you. When I am in a line, I see a bunch of people that are in the same boat together that hopefully are trying to accomplish similar goals. I don't believe that I need to be inserting myself as a barrier to what somebody wants to buy. I will get vouchers for the items I intend to buy and give others the opportunity to buy what they waited for. Far from being selfish as some in here try to describe me, it seems selfless and generous. It seems more selfish for someone to seize their money making opportunity without a thought or concern for anybody else there. The "me first" attitude that has led to many of the challenges our society will eventually have to address in a meaningful way. This 'dog eat dog' way of life is going to continue to cause more problems than it solves.

[sbsahm]

okay I am sorry but what are most people out shopping on BF for? CHRISTMAS (or Hannukah or whatever religios holiday you choose to celebrate) Either way the whole meaning of the season is to be grateful and to give to others. I am a mother of 5, and we have been through some tough times but I do not try to prosper by taking from others and then selling it to them. Instead of wasting your time to try to get some tickets to sell, if you really need the money get a job at the store and WORK that day instead. I have also seen people waiting in line and then someone else walks up to the store just when it opens and walks in and grabs all the tickets they can. Just because someone else jumped of a bridge should you? Just because someone else shoplifted should you? Just because other people are doing it doesn't it make it right...

[barc]

... Just because other people are doing it doesn't it make it right...

Or wrong.

[EddyOhio]

I don't think its ethical or fair to line jump, but I also don't believe its ethical or fair for some on here to say ebayers are black marketers. That is judging a whole group of businesses and individuals based on ones biased belief. Some individual ebay members are handicap and doing business from home has been a blessing. I've done ebay and its a lot of work. Staying up all hours, packing items, labeling, shipping, running around for supplies, keeping track of budgets, expenses, inventory and keeping up with good customer service. Ebay has allowed the individual to directly compete with the big stores (who also use ebay). There's no difference between paying someone to stand in line for you to get a much sought after item (so you can be at home) then to pay for the item on ebay. Either way, you're paying for convenience because you either don't have the time to stand in line or because you simply prefer to stay at home. Yes, its unethical to cut in line (we've all been taught that since childhood). But, if anyone feels in their heart that it is also unethical to pay someone to stand in line for you or for someone to sell their purchase to you thru an auction site then you should not do it. But, please let's not slam ebay members. Many of us have full time jobs, but that isn't enough in this tough economic time (rising utilities, fuel, food...). My wife and I work very hard and would love to keep a Wii for ourselves, but we would rather sell one to help pay for necessary things. If you're a mother that's upset you haven't found a Wii for your kid, please be grateful you have money to spend on a game and thankful you've been blessed with a child. Have some understanding for those of us in a different monetary situation. Yes, I pay plenty of taxes too!

[kim_r4]

well said!

[MiaMonkee03]

You can be a capitalist without trying to make a buck in every situation in your life.

I am not sure that you understand something here...your assumption is that all people who stand in line to buy tickets or things to resell on Black Friday are trying to make a buck in every situation in their lives. My husband and I have jobs...they don't pay a lot but they are enough to get by from month to month, more than some people have. People who are already making lots of money don't waste their time standing in line for hours to make a few hundred dollars. If you talk to those in the reseller community you will find that most of us need this money just as much as some people need these material things that they are buying for their friends and family members. I don't feel that I need the things I get at Best Buy on Black Friday, but I do feel that I need the money that I make on Black Friday to buy nominal Christmas gifts for my friends and family. I cannot imagine buying something as expensive as a laptop (even a $229 laptop) for my kids for Christmas. I don't have that kind of money to spend on anyone on my list. Maybe the greed is really in the kids who expect this from their parents - and who teaches them this? Their parents - who are standing behind me in line on Black Friday. As resellers and people who buy tickets to make a buck because we feel we need it, we see these people as greedy.

[Lidstrom]

I am not sure that you understand something here...your assumption is that all people who stand in line to buy tickets or things to resell on Black Friday are trying to make a buck in every situation in their lives.

Valid point. No disputing they are trying to make an extra buck or two in that situation, though?

People who are already making lots of money don't waste their time standing in line for hours to make a few hundred dollars.

No, but anybody who is smart with their money doesn't just blow it all paying retail or worse (regardless of how much money they have).

If you talk to those in the reseller community you will find that most of us need this money just as much as some people need these material things that they are buying for their friends and family members.

I was never intending to play up the consumer lifestyle in this country.

I don't feel that I need the things I get at Best Buy on Black Friday, but I do feel that I need the money that I make on Black Friday to buy nominal Christmas gifts for my friends and family. I cannot imagine buying something as expensive as a laptop (even a $229 laptop) for my kids for Christmas.

What is it you are buying then? Just selling the free vouchers for whatever you can get?

I don't have that kind of money to spend on anyone on my list. Maybe the greed is really in the kids who expect this from their parents - and who teaches them this? Their parents - who are standing behind me in line on Black Friday. As resellers and people who buy tickets to make a buck because we feel we need it, we see these people as greedy.

Maybe they are greedy. However, I find it difficult to believe that anyone can really read what I have written here and tell me that I am greedy.

I am learning what the concept of "agree to disagree" is all about now.