Official Black Friday TVs (HD & 4K) Discussion Thread

[Brad]

As always, we have several dedicated threads for the hotter items each Black Friday. Please try to keep all discussion related to these items in their official threads. Other threads posted will likely be merged into this main thread.

[Pnambic]

Couple thoughts to start the discussion.

 

 - 4K Media - How much are we seeing out there?  Where is it?  How do we get it?  Is it worth it?

 - We had HDR10 and Dolby Vision as the two competing HDR formats last year.  Now we have two more major players in HLG and Advanced HDR.  So, how's that "future-proofing" working out for you?

 - What do you know about ATSC 3.0?  Looks like another hardware revolution that will require at minimum new set-top boxes.

[bigjimslade]

I work in the motion picture business and I am starting to see the studios releasing titles in 4K.  Most of them are new titles from the last 5 years.  I am not seeing much in classic titles.  

 

The price point for 4K is $22 and up.  I do think 4K is here to stay and wont be another tech like 3D.  

[len_mullen]

Couple thoughts to start the discussion.

 

 - 4K Media - How much are we seeing out there?  Where is it?  How do we get it?  Is it worth it?

 - We had HDR10 and Dolby Vision as the two competing HDR formats last year.  Now we have two more major players in HLG and Advanced HDR.  So, how's that "future-proofing" working out for you?

 - What do you know about ATSC 3.0?  Looks like another hardware revolution that will require at minimum new set-top boxes.

 

Tons of potential for this discussion to drift off topic.  Should be fun.

 

I just bought a 55" 4k HDR television.  I mostly bought it because it was an inexpensive Roku TV and I needed a set for a place I cannot get to with coax or ethernet.  I think it looks pretty good.  $400 well spent.

 

 - There is a lot of 4k programming available and it is featured prominently on this Roku TV.  Mostly, though, it isn't worth watching.

 - Future-proofing is not possible at this time.

 - ATSC 3.0 will be almost as important as 3D tv in the home.

[Kanyon71]

We ended up with a 4K for our bedroom last year. Went with the 50" LG 4K. It was a good price for the quality of the set 4K or not. We have watched a few of our TV shows off Netflix in 4K and I have to say for the most part it is nice looking, things definitely look sharper and more detailed. I can't say it's SD to HD type improvement but it's nice none the less. If all things are equal then to me 4K is worth it, nothing lost in getting one for the right price.

 

As for future proofing this is technology just like any other, smart money in tech always tells you nothing is truly future proof.

[mamat2011]

We have an empty nest now so we took a room over and made a den.  So we need a cheap TV.  I figure it'll be a Walmart line for someone in the shopping group!  That's always the easy job so I usually use the youngins

[wittenlover]

Been resisting the urge for almost a full year now to go bigger & 4K. I currently have a 39" 1080p TV in my living room. Plenty big enough for the space (& still works just fine) but the 50-55" deals I've been seeing off and on have me considering an upgrade. Will wait to see what deals there are. If a decent (by my standard of what I need it for) 50" hits the $299-300 price point, I may make the jump. We shall see. 

[jaymacfla]

We ended up with a 4K for our bedroom last year. Went with the 50" LG 4K. It was a good price for the quality of the set 4K or not. We have watched a few of our TV shows off Netflix in 4K and I have to say for the most part it is nice looking, things definitely look sharper and more detailed. I can't say it's SD to HD type improvement but it's nice none the less. If all things are equal then to me 4K is worth it, nothing lost in getting one for the right price.

 

As for future proofing this is technology just like any other, smart money in tech always tells you nothing is truly future proof.

I own a 50" LG with HDR. Which model did you get? We use 55" x2 for the bedroom, yes two of them.

Been resisting the urge for almost a full year now to go bigger & 4K. I currently have a 39" 1080p TV in my living room. Plenty big enough for the space (& still works just fine) but the 50-55" deals I've been seeing off and on have me considering an upgrade. Will wait to see what deals there are. If a decent (by my standard of what I need it for) 50" hits the $299-300 price point, I may make the jump. We shall see. 

Save up those dollars because there are plenty of fine 4K TVs in that price range. Predictions for this year are stellar and last year was quite good!

Tons of potential for this discussion to drift off topic.  Should be fun.

 

I just bought a 55" 4k HDR television.  I mostly bought it because it was an inexpensive Roku TV and I needed a set for a place I cannot get to with coax or ethernet.  I think it looks pretty good.  $400 well spent.

 

 - There is a lot of 4k programming available and it is featured prominently on this Roku TV.  Mostly, though, it isn't worth watching.

 - Future-proofing is not possible at this time.

 - ATSC 3.0 will be almost as important as 3D tv in the home.

Can you tell us more about the new tuner standard? This obviously does not apply to new VIZIO models, lol.

[jaymacfla]

I work in the motion picture business and I am starting to see the studios releasing titles in 4K.  Most of them are new titles from the last 5 years.  I am not seeing much in classic titles.  

 

The price point for 4K is $22 and up.  I do think 4K is here to stay and wont be another tech like 3D.  

With the release of the Apple TV with 4K, prices for the digital only equivalent have begun their fall to near HD prices. Physical media has yet to feel the pinch, but will have to bend the proverbial knee eventually. 3D is in a sad state. Prices never came down, offerings were spotty at best and first adopters are now feeling like jilted lovers. There are a few after market devices which provided the 3D effect and projectors were hit and miss. 3D seems to have the strongest adoption rate in Europe. Perhaps some company like TCL can pick up this tech for a niche market.

[len_mullen]

Can you tell us more about the new tuner standard? This obviously does not apply to new VIZIO models, lol.

 

You can real all about it here.  Among other things, ATSC 3.0 promises...

• 4k
• Immersive audio
• Enhanced linear TV, plus on-demand support
• Subscription and pay-per-view (PPV) support
• Conditional access and digital rights management (DRM) capabilities
• Mobile and fixed device, plus companion device support
• Hybrid delivery (broadcast and broadband), combined with pushed content

Mostly ATSC 3.0 brings pay tv and targeted ads to broadcast television.  When I said as important as 3D tv, I meant unimportant.  Bottom line is that it's something you do not need to worry about because if it arrives and if you want it, it will probably be streamed from a router (think Tablou TV) to a set top box (Roku).  

[Kanyon71]

I own a 50" LG with HDR. Which model did you get? We use 55" x2 for the bedroom, yes two of them.

Save up those dollars because there are plenty of fine 4K TVs in that price range. Predictions for this year are stellar and last year was quite good!

Can you tell us more about the new tuner standard? This obviously does not apply to new VIZIO models, lol.

It't the 50UH55 From LG. I really like the set, it has Web OS 3.0 which I have to say has been one of the best modern TV interfaces I've used. At some point we will put a bigger set in here, I almost wish we had gone to the 60" that was on sale also but we were worried it would be too big in our room (it wouldn't have). Though I have no regrets in getting this 50".

[tracy0504]

I'm thinking of getting a 32" and a 50" smart TV...one for my daughter and one for my living room...

Edited October 2, 2017 by tracy0504

[bpr]

Must . Resist. 4K. (for at least another year. I'm trying not to buy one this year, lol)

[jesusluvu]

I am definitely looking for 4k this year. I would prefer a 65in but if it is out of my budget I will get a 55in 4k for the bedroom.  

[jendeere]

I'm looking to replace my 60" Vizio smart tv in the living room, it's only a few years old but that 4K is calling my name .  I'll want to replace it with at least another 60 incher, and then put this one in my bedroom.  Our bedroom tv is extremely outdated, possibly one of the first Vizio flat screens out there lol. 

[len_mullen]

I'm looking to replace my 60" Vizio smart tv in the living room, it's only a few years old but that 4K is calling my name .  I'll want to replace it with at least another 60 incher, and then put this one in my bedroom.  Our bedroom tv is extremely outdated, possibly one of the first Vizio flat screens out there lol. 

 

60" tv in the bedroom and a Deere in the barn.  You are LIVING LARGE, my friend!

[Kanyon71]

60" tv in the bedroom and a Deere in the barn.  You are LIVING LARGE, my friend!

Could live even larger. 60" ON the Deere.

[Pnambic]

There are some great reasons to buy a new TV this year.

 - Your old one is too small.

 - Your old one stopped working.

 - Your old one doesn't stream.

 - Your old one requires you to bash in the side in order to get the cathode ray tube to wake up.

 

So, buying a new TV because...

 - it's bigger

 - it streams (loving my Roku TVs)

 - it can be hung on the wall clearing up 10 square feet of floor space from your old console TV

 

These are good reasons. 

 

Streaming really does look like the future here.  I'm a big fan of Roku and am working on transitioning from DirecTV to Sling/Netflix/Amazon.

.

.

.

 

 

On the other hand, there are other reasons that people are using to justify buying that new TV that really aren't very good.  Such as...

 - 4k

 - HDR

 - the Joneses did it and they look so happy

 - My bank account is just too full, it's becoming a liability

 

And this isn't new or exclusive to TVs.  People spend unnecessary amounts of money on status symbols all the time.  I have an apple watch.  Totally unnecessary, but I like it.  If you're looking for a status symbol, 4K TVs have been marketed very well to fill this need.  Knock yourself out.  But if you're looking to spend your money wisely and not have to buy a new set in a year or two because you chose incorrectly, keep reading.

 

 

4K

I generally link to this chart every year, but it's one of the best tools I've found to determine what the best size and resolution TV is for a particular room.

 

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.png

 

Visit the page and read up.  There's a lot of good information there.

 

But basically, you need to be sitting no further than 5 - 6 ft from a 55inch screen in order for the human eye (assuming 20/20 vision) can even begin discerning the difference between 4K and 1080P.

 

This is real science.  Testable, predictable and repeatable as opposed to that quasi-faith-based climate science junk.  So get out the old measuring tape and measure the distance from where you want the TV to be, to where your head would be while sitting on your couch.  Then take a look at this chart here and figure out what size TV you need in order to get the best out of your viewing experience.  Most homes watch TV from 10 - 12 feet away, which would mean you'd need a screen thats 8 ft or more in diameter.  Let's be clear here - I'm not saying 4K isn't great.  I'm sure 4K material is really spectacular (if it's true 4K material and not upscaled) when viewed on a quality 4K screen from close enough to tell the difference, like when standing 4 feet away from it at Best Buy.  I'm planning on getting a 4K computer monitor or two this year as I actually am sitting close enough to tell the difference at my desk.  I bet it's pretty impressive.  But in my home, and every home I've visited, ever, not one has been set up with the TV close enough to the viewing area to be able to tell the difference between 1080P and 4K (except one guy who had seats about 8 feet from a 10 foot projector screen - that was pretty nice).  

 

So, 4K?  Nice, but shouldn't be something you spend more money to get or a reason to upgrade from a perfectly good 1080P TV.  UNLESS, you're simply looking to impress the feeble-minded visitors you might invite over to brag about your new 4K TV.  You will likely have success there as the marketing is strong with this one.    But if one of those visitors is educated or discerning, they'll just roll their eyes.

 

HDR

Now we're talking!  HDR is fantastic.  Technically, HDR doesn't require 4K, but no manufacturers (to my knowledge) are producing 1080P TVs with HDR as they're working hard to get you to buy a new 4K TV.  HDR, especially when combined with Wide Color Gamut (WCG) gives you better contrast, deeper colors, light and shadow are much improved, it just makes the world (as seen through your TV) a better place to look at.  All those advantages plasma has over LED/LCD, well HDR finally gives LED/LCD the ability to look like plasma, probably even better.  So, you may be asking yourself why I listed HDR in the "not very good" reasons to buy a new TV...and that's for the simple reason that there is no single HDR technology that's been made THE standard.  Last I checked, there are 4 major competitors at the moment.  Video Cassettes only had two (Beta and VHS), HD movies on disk only had two (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray).  In most technical reviews I've read, both Beta and HD-DVD produced superior images and/or audio, but neither won the trophy.  So buying a new TV now that supports HDR10 may end up being just like buying a BETA player back in the 80's, or a HD-DVD player in the 2000's - basically a big waste of money.  Last year at this time there were only two players - HDR-10 and Dolby Vision.  I warned against counting on either as it was impossible to guess which might win out in the end let alone if a third or fourth option might come along.  Well, this year we have HLG and Advanced HDR as well.  It's anybody's game at this point.  And the fact that there are twice as many choices this year as compared to last is not a good sign.  The trophy will end up going to whoever makes the most closed door deals and you and I just have no way of knowing.  SO!  When HDR finally is standardized, I will probably be the first in line to get a new TV or 3 that supports it.  But until then, I'm taking a wait and see approach.  I still have my HD-DVD player staring at me from my component stack to remind me why.

 

There, your uncle Pnambic has shared his sage wisdom.

Now, go and throw away your hard earned money in whatever way makes you happy.

[HanShotFirst]

I'm so glad my TV cabinet limits me to a certain size TV!  No temptation to upgrade the size every year.  LOL

[msomnipotent]

We are still rocking a 720p Panasonic plasma from 13 years ago. Nothing is wrong with it, but it is starting to shabby compared to the newer ones and we could put the plasma at our cottage. This might be the year we replace it, but I worry about the software or hardware becoming obsolete. We tend to buy the best we can afford and then keep it until it breaks, so is there might be a possibility that whatever company we buy from stops supporting "the insides"? 

[jaymacfla]

It't the 50UH55 From LG. I really like the set, it has Web OS 3.0 which I have to say has been one of the best modern TV interfaces I've used. At some point we will put a bigger set in here, I almost wish we had gone to the 60" that was on sale also but we were worried it would be too big in our room (it wouldn't have). Though I have no regrets in getting this 50".

50UH5530 here. We probably have the same TV if you bought it from Best Buy. Mine was a direct replacement for a Black Friday Toshiba. I am using it as a computer monitor and a movie viewer since this model has HDR10 and i use an Xbone S. I do recommend a 55" or 60" for the bedroom due to the viewing distance from the bed itself.

[nhughes]

Not sure which TV I want, but definitely in the market for one this year. Think we'll wait and see what the best prices are.

[jaymacfla]

I'm so glad my TV cabinet limits me to a certain size TV!  No temptation to upgrade the size every year.  LOL

You are absolutely killing me with that statement ,lol. If you have a woodworker, or in budgetary terms a particle board magician, you can usually craft a new entertainment center out of the old stalwarts to fit a flat screen on top of it. My brother in law does that as a hobby.

 

As a general rule, dual arm wall brackets are a heck of a lot cheaper than an entertainment center, even if you have to finally ditch it.

[jaymacfla]

Not sure which TV I want, but definitely in the market for one this year. Think we'll wait and see what the best prices are.

Perhaps we can help you this year. There are a few considerations this year depending upon your budget and the size you wish to obtain for your household. Two years ago, HDR was not even a consideration for me, as uncle Pnambic has been dead on for years, due to the lack of content and the two competing types. There are a few TVs by TCL that will make your decision a whole lot easier since BOTH types of HDR are on the same set. Another thing to consider is the war itself. HDR10 is free and open source, while Dolby Vision is a pay to play license that the vendor is slow to push to eligible TVs which did not come with it initially. 2016 was a strange year as I was led to believe that my set only had HDR10. It turns out that my Sams Club 70" LG was a rebadged model that had more expensive internals that gave it Dolbyvision and Atmos as well, although LG will never admit it due to legalities involved. Another consideration is that HDR10+ will probably be a software update to existing models, since it is not a major change but places emphasis on being dynamic like Dolby instead of static. The war for dominance may be over as soon as VUDU adopts the HDR10 standard alongside Dolby Vision in their offerings this year. 

[Kanyon71]

50UH5530 here. We probably have the same TV if you bought it from Best Buy. Mine was a direct replacement for a Black Friday Toshiba. I am using it as a computer monitor and a movie viewer since this model has HDR10 and i use an Xbone S. I do recommend a 55" or 60" for the bedroom due to the viewing distance from the bed itself.

Yes I did get it from Best Buy. Love the TV, has been great, really nice picture lots of good features we use. I am thinking maybe next year we will get a larger one for the bedroom most likely a 60" version (would like the same LG just bigger). This one will most likely get moved to either my office or possibly to my daughter room since we got her the Xbox One S last christmas.

[jendeere]

60" tv in the bedroom and a Deere in the barn.  You are LIVING LARGE, my friend!

 

Could live even larger. 60" ON the Deere.

 

You guys are killing me

 

I measured today, and sadly the living room tv won't fit in the bedroom. I think it's over kill anyway lol

[Kanyon71]

You guys are killing me

 

I measured today, and sadly the living room tv won't fit in the bedroom. I think it's over kill anyway lol

There is ALWAYS a way to make room. It may take $10s of thousands in construction to add on to the bedroom but it WILL fit.

[wittenlover]

Honestly, my current TV, while okay, was a very quick purchase with very limited research time, as my old TV died and, yippee, it was my birthday weekend, so I actually wanted to sit and enjoy the NASCAR race. I don't like the sports bar scene for watching races, didn't have local friends with any interest at the time, so new TV it was. Race green flagged just after 7 pm that night. My TV died around 10 am. (Figures, right?)

 

I, for obvious reasons, had a limited budget to spend on a TV all of a sudden, so I chose one I could afford that was basically the same size as the dead one. As a sports-watcher, though, the fast-action capability on the one I ended up with is sub-par (something I would've known had I had more than 9 hours to research, shop, and buy). It drives me nuts when I'm watching races/games. Seeing as the prices on the 4Ks have become much more attractive in the past year, I've been doing more research and will have a bit more available to spend if I see one that truly fits my criteria. Hence, I'm at least looking this year. 

[Pnambic]

Honestly, my current TV, while okay, was a very quick purchase with very limited research time, as my old TV died and, yippee, it was my birthday weekend, so I actually wanted to sit and enjoy the NASCAR race. I don't like the sports bar scene for watching races, didn't have local friends with any interest at the time, so new TV it was. Race green flagged just after 7 pm that night. My TV died around 10 am. (Figures, right?)

 

I, for obvious reasons, had a limited budget to spend on a TV all of a sudden, so I chose one I could afford that was basically the same size as the dead one. As a sports-watcher, though, the fast-action capability on the one I ended up with is sub-par (something I would've known had I had more than 9 hours to research, shop, and buy). It drives me nuts when I'm watching races/games. Seeing as the prices on the 4Ks have become much more attractive in the past year, I've been doing more research and will have a bit more available to spend if I see one that truly fits my criteria. Hence, I'm at least looking this year. 

 

http://www.rtings.com/

 

Get familiar with this site.  They have a great standardized test process and they report all the important details.

 - the TV is only 60Hz?  Box the box says 240... 

 - the input lag is poor on this TV?  But it doesn't say anything about input lag on the box...

 

Something you mentioned was a sore point for you is the fast-action capability.  This is often directly related to the refresh rate on the TV.  Plasma, due to the technology of plasma, allowed those sets to employ a 600 Hz refresh rate which is why you didn't have motion blur on them as compared to the LCD and LED/LCD sets.  It's complicated, but it's difficult to make LCD screens flicker faster than 60 Hz has the backlight is generally tied to the power grid's delivered 60 Hz - the TV manufacturer has to incorporate tricky bit of technology to overcome this and 95% of people don't even notice the difference.  So instead, most manufacturers began plastering meaningless numbers on the boxes to make the buyers assume 120, 240 or even 480 Hz refresh rates.  (see here)  Check RTings for their test results to make sure you get a TV with a proper refresh rate to enjoy the racing without the blur.  

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pnambic

[Kanyon71]

http://www.rtings.com/

 

Get familiar with this site.  They have a great standardized test process and they report all the important details.

 - the TV is only 60Hz?  Box the box says 240... 

 - the input lag is poor on this TV?  But it doesn't say anything about input lag on the box...

 

Something you mentioned was a sore point for you is the fast-action capability.  This is often directly related to the refresh rate on the TV.  Plasma, due to the technology of plasma, allowed those sets to employ a 600 Hz refresh rate which is why you didn't have motion blur on them as compared to the LCD and LED/LCD sets.  It's complicated, but it's difficult to make LCD screens flicker faster than 60 Hz has the backlight is generally tied to the power grid's delivered 60 Hz - the TV manufacturer has to incorporate tricky bit of technology to overcome this and 95% of people don't even notice the difference.  So instead, most manufacturers began plastering meaningless numbers on the boxes to make the buyers assume 120, 240 or even 480 Hz refresh rates.  (see here)  Check RTings for their test results to make sure you get a TV with a proper refresh rate to enjoy the racing without the blur.  

Oh how I miss plasma

 

I'm waiting to see how the whole OLED thing starts to shake out with their yields finally going up which is helping to bring the pricing down. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to replace my 70" Vizio 1080P set in the living room the technology will be at a place where it's affordable for me.

 

I still regret not picking up the 60" Pioneer Plasma from Best Buy's Magnolia when they were closing them out.