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Official Black Friday TVs (HDTV & 4K) Discussion Thread

Brad

By Brad
in 2015

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jaymacfla

jaymacfla

Posted
Posted

Hey listeners, here's a little update from your uncle Pnambic.

 

I've been digging a lot to find the true refresh rates of a lot of these 4K TVs and I thought I'd share the gist.

 

4K media is hard to come by; true 4K media almost non-existant.  And to my knowledge, there isn't even a standard being discussed, let alone agreed on for 120Hz 4K media.  So what 4K media you can find is mostly 24 or 30 Hz, and some is 60 Hz.  The standard is leaning toward 60 Hz, but the marketplace needs major upgrades in hardware in place before that will be commonplace.  What this means is that 4K screens have not been designed to display 120 Hz 4K material.  Some only handle 24/30 Hz.  Some can handle 60 Hz.  Unfortunately, this also means that a lot of the 4K TVs out there have therefore limited ALL refresh rates on the TV to 60 Hz.  This means that even the 720P, 1080i  and 1080P material you watch will also only be displayed at 60 Hz.  So, if you're not real careful, "upgrading" your 1080P 120 Hz or 240 Hz TV to a 4K TV may degrade your viewing experience on 99.99% of the material you'll be able to watch on the TV.

 

TV manufacturers know it would be a hard sell to convince a person who just spent $1000 on a 240 Hz 1080P TV two years ago to upgrade to a TV that displays 1080P material WORSE than their current TV but can maybe show 4K material if you can find it.  The trade-off doesn't make much sense even to complete newbies.  So they've made up new measurements such as TruMotion (LG), MotionRate (Samsung), MotionFlow (Sony), SPS (Vizio), Clearscan (Toshiba), BacklightScan (Panasonic) and others.  What they're doing is just making up a number that looks like what you'd expect to see for the refresh rate and hoping you'll assume that's what it is.  Most of these numbers are actually TWICE the real refresh rate, some even more.  So when you see an LG TV with a TruMotion 120 plastered on the box, it may actually be a 60Hz TV. 

 

The good news is, many manufacturers are at least putting the real refresh rates in the product manuals.  So if you go to their websites and look them up, you can generally find the actual refresh rate there to help you make your decision.  But it requires that you play the part of educated consumer and dig it up.

 

For example, take UN60JS7000FXZA listed at BestBuy for $1299.

The BestBuy ad says "Motion Rate 120".  Most people assume that means a refresh rate of 120 Hz.

 

In the Samsung manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201509/20150914125600079/ENG-US_HMUATSCJ-1.315-0907.pdf?CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000006),

see the sections titled:

 - "Supported Resolutions for 3D Modes" pg. 150 (frequency column)

 - "Supported Resolutions for UHD Input Signals" pg. 151 (frame rate column)

 - "Supported Video Codecs" pg. 161 (frame rate column)

 - "Supported Resolutions for Video Signals" pg. 167 (display format column)

 

Do you see anything listed at 120 Hz anywhere?  Anywhere at all?  Nope.

Even 1080P is limited to 60 Hz on this TV.

Would you consider it an upgrade to go from your 120 Hz 1080P TV to this (for all intents and purposes 1080P) 60 Hz TV?  I wouldn't.

It looks like the entry level 4K TV's (most all of the best Black Friday deals) are by and large all 60Hz all the time.

 

You shall now go by the nick name 4K Killer.....I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung hasn't already sent their Ninjas out after you.

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DeanH

DeanH

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Posted

I personally like the TCL over the Hisense, although i was at Walmart recently and saw a pretty decent picture on that Hisense.

 

It's been rumored that several, if not more than a few, HiSense TV models this year are nothing more than rebadged Sharp televisions, which makes some sense as Hisense did purchase Sharp's TV production.

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racerfan

racerfan

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I personally like the TCL over the Hisense, although i was at Walmart recently and saw a pretty decent picture on that Hisense.

Thank you,  I think the Hisense is $599 at my Walmart, not sure if it is the same one.  I don't see a TCL anywhere.  Who knew it would be so difficult

to decide on a simple TV for the bedroom.  I am now looking at a Hitachi at Walmart for $599 (Sams had it on 11/14 for $349)  Of course there is no Sams

near me.  My stores within 20 minutes is Walmart, Kmart, Home Depot and Lowes. I have to drive over an hour to get to any decent stores...

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Pnambic

Pnambic

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Thank you,  I think the Hisense is $599 at my Walmart, not sure if it is the same one.  I don't see a TCL anywhere.  Who knew it would be so difficult

to decide on a simple TV for the bedroom.  I am now looking at a Hitachi at Walmart for $599 (Sams had it on 11/14 for $349)  Of course there is no Sams

near me.  My stores within 20 minutes is Walmart, Kmart, Home Depot and Lowes. I have to drive over an hour to get to any decent stores...

 

That's what hotels are for.  :)

And $19/day UHaul rental vans.

 

You'll save enough to make it worth your while, right?

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reido50

reido50

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You shall now go by the nick name 4K Killer.....I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung hasn't already sent their Ninjas out after you.

To add on what the infamous 4K killer posted, all major cable and Sat. company's all broadcast at no more than 60hz refresh rate and none are currently working towards anything that would need the 4K Ultra formats.  The only reason anyone would need more than 60hz currently is for HD gaming but even then most would not be able to notice the difference.  

So........1080P Smart TV here i come,  Going to Sam Club in the morning for the 58 inch Samsung.  Early Christmas for me.

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mgreen

mgreen

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I think it just depends on the off name brands. In a lot of products, the name doesn't mean much anymore. Most brands use each others' parts, etc. anyway. I have an off brand 42" flat tv that I purchased 3 years ago on black Friday. Very inexpensive at the time. Love it. It has never given me any problems. Good picture and sound.  I may replace it this year only because I want a bigger one. I will definitely give the off brands a chance. You can always take them back to the store if it totally sucks. If you can you can try to go to a store and see the product in action.

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wittenlover

wittenlover

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So hopefully enough on topic to post here:

 

Got friends who just bought a 4K TV. Very nice. Fine. Whatever. Now they want to get a Blu-ray player (again - fine, whatever) but they are seriously considering laying out good money for Monster brand HDMI cables. (Yes really.) I don't see the point, especially after reading everything from the "4K Killer" (Ha! Love it!), but curious as to folks opinions on the best HDMI cables, given that set up. They're looking at needing 9'-10' length in the cables. Thoughts?

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Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
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They won't be able to tell a difference between $6 high speed HDMI cabes from Monoprice vs. the crazy priced Monster HDMI cables at anything less than 15 feet.

HDMI cables transmit a digital signal - not analog.  Ones and Zeroes.  It doesn't matter how "clean" the one or zero is - just that it got from one end of the cable to the other end.

It has been found that at lengths greater than 15 feet, cable quality *can* help, but that doesn't mean the most expensive cable is the best one.

 

But it sounds to me like your friends have more dollars than sense.  Good for them!  Let them help support the economy.  If they can't find something better to do with their money, may as well give it to someone else - maybe they can.

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wittenlover

wittenlover

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Thanks for confirming what I was thinking, Pnambic.

 

A little more background - found out they got suckered into buying a Monster cable recently because they were supposedly "the best". Since their daughter & I are the ones helping them make the purchase of the BR & cables, we can use this info (along with other articles that have said similar) to perhaps convince them to keep some of that money in their pockets and at least drop down to a Rocketfish level or some such. (We both think they were nuts for buying Monster. lol)

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bribri25

bribri25

Posted
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Thanks for confirming what I was thinking, Pnambic.

 

A little more background - found out they got suckered into buying a Monster cable recently because they were supposedly "the best". Since their daughter & I are the ones helping them make the purchase of the BR & cables, we can use this info (along with other articles that have said similar) to perhaps convince them to keep some of that money in their pockets and at least drop down to a Rocketfish level or some such. (We both think they were nuts for buying Monster. lol)

 

Maybe you can convince them to put half their savings from the Monster cables toward a commission fee for the smart shoppers...?

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wittenlover

wittenlover

Posted
Posted

Thanks, all, for the input on the cables. Much appreciated and lines up with everything else I've read in the last 24 hours regarding cable quality (as expected). We talked them down to Rocketfish, at least ($40 instead of $80). Meanwhile, we've bookmarked Monoprice and other sites for cheap cables for ourselves. No need to overspend on cables when there's no appreciable difference. Their deal is they're worried about the dogs they have destroying the cables and Monster is "fully guaranteed". We got them to the Rocketfish because it offers a "lifetime warranty" of sorts as well. We haven't been able to convince them that it just doesn't make sense to spend big money, given the fact that, at roughly $5 a piece, you can replace a cable 16 times over for the price of the Monster cable. lol (We are both far more tech savvy/logical than my friend's parents.)

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Pnambic

Pnambic

Posted
Posted (edited)

There is a great deal on Samsung 40" 4k tvat sams and best buy in the $400's.  If only my current 40" would break so I would have an excuse to buy it.

 

You're probably better off that your current TV is continuing to work just fine.

Mind sharing the make and model number?  We could compare specs right here to determine if the 4K would actually be an upgrade for you or not.

 

==========

 

The 4K Samsung at Sams club for $428 right now (http://www.samsclub.com/sams/40-led-wifi-tv-smart-uhd/prod18310413.ip?navAction=) has its manual posted here: (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201509/20150914125600079/ENG-US_HMUATSCJ-1.315-0907.pdf).  Samsung's manual indicates even though it touts "Motion Rate 120" (whatever that means), it has a 60Hz panel which will limit even your 1080P media to 60Hz.  There's a good chance your current TV is the better of the two for your needs right now and into the foreseeable future.

 

==========

 

The 4K at BestBuy for $449.99 right now (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-40-class-40-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/9481007.p?id=1219704422798&skuId=9481007)is a normal Samsung product (http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN40JU6400FXZA) and the manual here (

 

Reviews indicate the contrast and blacks are not the strong suit of this TV. (http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ju6400)

 

==========

 

If you're buying the TV to be 4K future proof, you should know that neither the 4600 nor the 460D series support 4K @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4

Edited by Pnambic
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snevins61105

snevins61105

Posted
Posted (edited)

Does Wal-Mart usually post their larger TVs online??  I'm looking at the TCL 55" Smart LED TV.  There is a page for it but says it's not in stock online.  Could that just mean that it won't go live 3am ET??  I haven't bought a bigger TV on Black Friday before.

Edited by snevins61105
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