bitWrangler

The particular deal I got last BF looks like it won't even be bested by this BF Let alone by last April.

brightness - higher is "better". However keep in mind that you will (or should) never run the tv at it's max rated brightness. LCD's use florescent backlights to provide the light, run at max brightness these backlights will quite quickly wear out (start getting dimmer and eventually fail). For the light conditions on our "watching" room, which has a large window and southern exposure, we run our LCD at about 45% brightness. contrast ratio - higher is better. higher contrast means the difference between the brightest whites and darkest blacks is wider. From a practical POV, it usually means the tv will have "blacker blacks". Be warned, there is no "standard" way of measuring contrast ratio, so it's very difficult to do an apples to apples comparison based on published numbers. response time - lower is better esp if you play games or watch sports. Lower response times equate to less "ghosting" effect (where a particular pixel won't turn off fast enough creating a slight ghost or streak in areas of the screen where something is moving quickly). resolution - This is your call. For a TV as small as a 32", you'll likely notice no difference between 720p/1080i/1080p. 42" and above is where it CAN start to make a difference, but it really depends on the particular model at this point. Go for 1080p if you are planning on getting a larger tv and/or the price differential isn't too huge (or you just simply find a set that you love). Beyond the specs, go look at the tv's in person. There are things beyond the specs that can have a much larger affect on picture quality that a 2ms difference in response time for instance. A couple of examples, chipset, all tv's today use some chipset to decode the HD signal and map it to the panels pixel array. As you might guess, different chipsets vary in the quality in which they do this. Brightness uniformity. Having a TV rated high in brightness doesn't mean much if the tv has "bright spots" (look at a completely gray screen with the tv on, ideally the brightness should be fairly uniform, with it perhaps being a bit brighter towards the top and bottom edges). I'm not saying start researching chipsets, but rather that you should let your eyes be the key differentiator, not your spreadsheet.

Well, it is if your thinking is that "pixel density" == quality. While obviously 720p does not have the same raw number of pixels as 1080i, the 1080i picture is interlaced, meaning that it draws every other scan line per pass vs every scan line per pass. In real world terms that means that if you're watching something that has a lot of fast movement, the 720p picture can actually look better than the 1080i (fewer artifacts). The "old" wisdom used to be to use 1080i in general and 720p for things like sports and video games. Lots of tv's today have chipsets with enough horsepower to do a very good job with 1080i signals to minimize this effect. Another issue is native panel size. Most 720p/1080i sets on the market only support 720p natively, meaning that they'll downsample 1080i signals not matter what you do. There were a few sets last year that have 1920x1080 panels but yet didn't support 1080p signals, but they could display 1080i signals at native resolution (and frustratingly enough, they advertised themselves as being 1080p, ugh). My guess is that this is the original posters point, that it really isn't worthwhile to talk 1080i since very few tv's natively support that resolution. Most all panels today are either 720p or 1080p. Either way one is usually hard pressed to tell the difference between a 1080i and 720p image (motion artifacts aside) on anything smaller than a 42" tv and a pretty good signal/source anyway.

Look up the model # on the Olevia website as some of their models have tuners, others do not. If you don't have cable/sat, then you will likely want to purchase a model that does, unless you're getting such a good deal that you can factor in the cost of an OTA receiver (price varies drastically depending on new/used, etc, etc. Figure around $100 ballpark. A hint, many sat boxes can pull in OTA signals and will work even without a sat dish or card. You can often find a good deal on these, esp since many people are ditching the mpeg2 based HD DirecTV boxes to move up to the mpeg4 based models (this won't affect the OTA stuff)).

No, I don't mean that lower priced mid range models from "name" manufacturers are as good or bad as "lower tier" manufacturers. Simply that you shouldn't simply dismiss other manufacturers because of name. The fact is that many components share common sources. A good example is 24" LCD's, Apple and Dell source the same panel, and though the controller electronics differ, you'd be hard pressed to figure out where all that extra money you are dishing out for the Apple version of the monitor is. As for LG/GoldStar, once again, it simply reinforces my point that one shouldn't get hung up on the name, but rather they should do their homework on the SPECIFIC models that they are interested in. One could easily dismiss the LG label if they knew that it was the former GoldStar, just as many STILL dismiss Hyundai despite the realities of it's performance. You are actually agreeing with my argument that one shouldn't go by pre-conceived notions based on brand name alone.

OK, last time I'll say this. The majority (nearly all) of the manufacturers source their panels and primary driver electronics from common sources. The most important implication is that there is a SIGNIFICANT variance in quality (both in outright performance and reliability) across any manufacturers models, EVEN in the same family. If you look at say the Olevia line, they have 3 "families" of units with 3 or 4 sizes per family. If you look at the detailed specs, you'll notice that there is a significant amount of variation amongst them. Just because this persons 32" Olevia had "issues" (esp with the standard def signal like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts) doesn't speak at all for my 37". Ditto for other manufacturers. Just because you read/heard great things about a specific Sony or Panny model, you shouldn't automatically assume that the same will hold true for other models. Like I've always said, narrow down your choices and research the SPECIFIC models you are interested in. Don't stress about "families" as this changes constantly. Also, funny you mention LG as a "name". Would you feel the same if it had the "brand name" that they used before they started using LG here in the states, "GoldStar"? I think anyone who remembers from just a few years ago wouldn't touch a piece of electronics made by GoldStar with a 10' pole, but I guess now that they are LG, it's ok (smart move using LG and dumping GoldStar).

What about cnet.com? I know where to look for reviews (though I almost never go to cnet) ,but even on cnet, the Olevia is rated pretty highly amongst users (no cnet review of it or the other Olevia 37" LCD's). Again, if you want to pay top dollar, go for it. I prefer to make my money "work smarter, not harder". I challenge anyone to come to my house, look at the 1080i OTA signal, and not be blown away. Sure you might be able to find nits when you do a side by side comparison against some of the "other" tv's, but I'm not willing to play the "diminishing returns" game.

And what reviews and comparisons have lead you to this conclusion? Have you gone out and actually looked at the Olevias? If you do a search on this board, you'll find almost nothing but positive comments. If you want to spend 2x for a "name", go for it, I'll be happy saving money, enjoying a fantastic picture, and getting pissed when my "name" brand goes kerplunk 1 month after the warranty expires (search on Amazon for some comments about a certain 4 letter "name" and some of their tv's)

The Olevia (slightly different model, the 537 vs 237) could be had last BF for $500 AR, so I would expect better prices this year. Nice unit BTW (the 537).

Usually the two biggest concerns about using a "public" AP are: 1 - Forgetting to turn off any shares you have, potentially allowing someone else on the same network to gain access to your files (this happens in hotels/airports all the time, try it one day, it's amusing, esp hotels since laptops will be left connected to the network for extended periods (i.e. all night)). 2 - Accessing non commercial sites that DON'T encrypt their logon pages with a username/password that is the same or similar to your regular username/password. Quick, without looking, is the GottaDeal logon page encrypted? Is your GottaDeal logon/password the same or similar to the same one you use at Amazon/BB/etc? In a related issue, did you forget your password and request that a site email it to you? Do you access your email through imap/pop? Is that access encrypted? For many, the answer is no.

I wouldn't be so quick to poo-poo OTA HD. I find that often the overall picture quality of OTA HD broadcasts are superiour to anything being pumped out by the cable/satellite companies. Remember, just like with standard def, the cable/sat providers are trying to squeeze as many channels as possible over their fixed amount of bandwidth. This means that they are more likely to jack up the compression levels (or lower their bitrates) yielding an inferior picture. No such worries from OTA. While watching football games on cable/sat is nice, I'm constantly blown away by how much better the OTA quality often is. Now of course, this varies significantly based on location, and in any case you are only talking about a handful of channels compared to cable/sat.

I paid that much for my 37" last BF (after rebates, yadda yadda). I would assume that you will be able to get a better deal on BF. Of course you will likely have to stand in line all night in the cold, so I guess it's up to you whether it's worth it to pull the trigger now or not.

You don't need HDMI to do 1080i or 720p so I'm sure that there are DVD players that will upconvert to those resolutions and support component. Does your TV have a DVI connector, if so, then you can get a simple DVI<->HDMI cable as well. What type of HD receiver are you talking about, OTA/cable/satellite?

I'd add a word of caution. The real trick is simply knowing who the "good names" are. Keep in mind that for the majority of TV manufacturers, they simply source their materials and integrate them. So an LCD TV from some manufacturer might have an LG panel, with a HiMax chipset, and various and sundry glue logic. So if you want to get into that level of detail, you really need to do your homework. At a higher level, be sure to find out what the warranty policy is for both the manufacturer and the dealer. Also be warned that, like I mentioned in my previous post, it is not at all uncommon for different models in the same family of tv's to have radically different components (panels, chipsets, etc) so be sure to research the specific model you're interested in. As an example, while Sony makes some nice units, often times particular models of Sony products have a very bad rep (and deservedly so), so be sure to research the particular model you're interested in. Also, Sony (not to pick on them, I do love them and have many of their products, but ....) has been known to not have the best customer service in the world if you do have a problem, but again, this varies.

There is a massive difference in the actual tv construction, but generally very little difference as a whole in performance. Now you'll see all sorts of different specs, numbers showing plasma as having better contrast or brightness, etc. I would recommend that you don't get caught up in the numbers and let your eyes decide, as measured performance rarely lives up to it's billing in real world comparisons. You should pick a price and/or size point, then go out and shop based on that. Look at both plasmas and LCD's. So as an example, set your budget, say $1000, then go out and look at all the tv's in that range within the given size range that you're interested in, say 37-46". One word of caution, when it comes to brightness, don't be afraid to ask the dealer (or do it yourself) to adjust the brightness up or down. Generally the brightness levels are jacked up in the stores to make the tv's look better (and they can be set up or down depending on which tv's the dealer wants to make look better). As a matter of fact, many flat screen tv's even come with a "dealer showroom" preset just for this purpose. You would never run the tv at these brightness levels at home. Don't forget to consider items such as: - number of HDMI inputs. You may have only 1 now (or even none). But when you get that PS3 and the hidef cable/satellite box, then suddenly you'll need at least two. Want to add your PC (assuming it has HDMI), theirs three. - if you still watch standard def content, BE SURE to check out a standard def signal on the tv. Different tv's handle standard def content differently, and there IS a difference (even among the same tv's in a product line). - if you have an older armoire that you are considering putting the tv into, today's tv's have their speakers either on the sides or on the bottom. Those with the speakers on the sides may not fit horizontally into older armoires. - plasmas tend to be heavier and more fragile than their LCD counterparts. If you are inclined to move the tv around (e.g. you are an apartment dweller and you move ever year), you might want to consider an LCD. - Don't purchase the dealers over inflated HDMI cables. Last year it seemed like the cheapest cables most dealers were selling were north of $75. If a cable follows the HDMI spec, then even a $12 cable from Big Lots (they have them) will do just as good as a $140 Monster Cable at any length < 12 feet. I'm sure there are plenty of other things people can chime in on, and I have to go home, so I'll leave it at that :)

Anyone know if there is still the issue with manufacturers advertising their tv's as being "1080p" but not supporting that resolution with HDMI? This was a common problem last year around this time, example being some Emprex sets sold by Fry's.

Well, I guess you're just going to have to wait like the rest of us :) But if last year as an example (and realizing that my memory sucks), I seem to recall that amazingly enough, Home Depot had decent deals (and even better you were able to purchase the tv's before BF). I remember BB not having anything worth waiting in line for. I also remember Fry's being a bit of a letdown (at least with regards to TV's). That being said, it can all change this year (sorry, I'm not privvy to any inside info).

$200/$300 more? Heck, this is the Black Fridays forums. People will literally throw away 16 hours of their lives standing in line in the freezing cold all night long just to save that much money angelic680 - please define "best LCD tv's". Are you literally wondering which stores carry the tv's that are rated as amongst the best? Or are you looking for the stores with the best deals?

I am going to guess that someone will have 22"'ers for $139. I got my wife's 22" four months ago for $169 AR from Fry's ($239 instore), and they were $179 AR just last week.

This is somewhat misleading. The biggest difference in quality tends to be the compression ratio of whatever source you're watching, not necessarily whether it is 720p/1080i/1080p. The beauty of BluRay is that it has enough space to allow the manufacturer to be generous with the level of compression (in this case meaning that they don't have to compress as much). This leads to a significantly better picture that most people would be hard pressed to determine the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 42" set or smaller. I also wouldn't expect too many non media based sources (i.e. satellite/cable/OTA) to switch to 1080p any time soon. Right now those providers are fighting for QUANTITY, not quality. You can fit twice as many channels (all other things being more or less equal) at 1080i than you can at 1080p. Also, consider that the direct upstream providers can downscale the signal as well (e.g. even if ESPN broadcasts the SuperBowl in 1080p, doesn't mean that your cable company will send it to you in 1080p). If the difference between comparable 1080i/720p and 1080p is relatively small, then by all means go for the 1080p (esp if you already have a PS3). But I have a feeling that, this year at least, that manufacturers are making most of their profits from the 1080p sets "while bringing them in the stores" with the 1080i/720p sets, keeping the price differential sufficiently high enough to make the cheaper sets a much better deal.

I have the 37" and it's great. Got it for an awesome price (Black Friday deal) and the only thing that is lacking is the fact that it only has a single HDMI port. Make sure you check out the 332/532's standard def picture though, there have been complaints about it (can't remember if it was with the built in tuner only, or any standard def input). When I saw one myself it really was noticeably bad. If you still watch a lot of standard def (e.g. cable/satellite) keep this in mind and check the exact model you are considering (i.e. don't be suckered by having some salesman only show you the WOW hi def stuff unless that's the only thing you're going to watch). Speaking of which, to nuromutt's comment about cables, keep in mind that while getting expensive cables might make a difference for analog cables (composite/component), it's not the case for "digital" cables (DVI,HDMI). If the run is short enough (conservatively say around 3meters), there should be absolutely no difference in picture quality between high priced cables and cheapos (they just need to be produced correctly, not better). For longer runs (> 3meters) then quality _could_ come into play. In theory, a cable manufacturer can't put the HDMI logo on a cable that doesn't meet specs at any length (and being a digital signal, if it meets specs, i.e. if it delivers that bit from point A to point B, then a $200 cable isn't any different than the $20 cable).

This has been going on since after new year. I thought that they had all gone to 50% off (the ones around me have). It's definitely a great deal though. Cool thing is that it's 50% off the marked price, which in many cases has already been reduced from the MSRP. For example, I got a Waring Pro Waffle Iron, original price $80, it was marked 30% off to $56, I got the additional 30% off which knocked it down to $39, then I slapped the 20% off coupon on top of that, my final price $32, not too shabby. 50% off is an even better deal now.

OOC, were the clearance bikes marked as such? Went to one store where the clearance sign was there, but all the bikes were gone. Just peeked into the store closer to work and they had tons of bikes, but nothing was marked clearance (I had to go before I could track down an associate).

Was any of the Global Bazaar furniture on sale?

Well, it sounds like the other Target is about 60miles away? If you get say 20mpg then that's 3 miles. If gas in your area is around $2/gal then it's around $6 each way for $12 in gas total for this trip. So you need to add probably a minimum of $12 (maybe even up to $20 depending on your car and gas prices) to the cost of the table. Now I know the discount is greater than this, but others have mentioned that you might be able to find an equiv. table closer for around the same price or a bit more, which will be a wash by the time you factor in the extra travel costs. The other intangible is the 3 hours in travel time. I don't know what your schedule is like, but for me or my wife the travel time is the killer. For us, it wouldn't be worth the savings. I'd much rather wait for a "close enough" price locally than to lose that time (though I must admit, it's easy for me to say, my son already has a train table :) ) Don't know if this helps or hurts, and leave it up to a guy to go all "over analytical" and stuff. But then again, you asked