I have recently purchased a refurbished black Zune from Woot.com and was very pleased at the condition! It appears brand new! The box was marked refurbished by Microsoft, but there wasn't a fingerprint on it! All the accessories and paperwork looked brand new. I LOVE my Zune! I have over 5000 tunes on the 30g model! AND, the firmware is being updated TOMORROW 11/13/08 and all older Zune models will have all the characteristics of the newer models! BRAVO Microsoft! (Apple will never do that for a new iPod!) Enjoy!