Lidstrom
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Posts posted by Lidstrom
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Waitlist button became click-able for a second but I still wasn't able to get on it!
Does it tell you if you are added to the waitlist?
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I must have lost all possible waiting list spots while it was "checking on the order" initially. Lost a lot of time to the Amazon spinning-wheel-of-no-deals.
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Wouldn't even let me on the waiting list for some reason.
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I am dumbfounded that someone had to be killed before they got sensible about this.
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I was very unimpressed. That is good for me, though. One less inspiration to spend money. I am a value shopper, and I will wait for my price.
I bought one of those eMachines packages in 2006, I think. It had a Celeron D processor, which ran awfully w/ either 32-bit XP Home or Vista Basic. I put XP Pro 64-bit on it and it runs a whole lot better. It also ran very well with amd64 Linux installs.
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http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/cf56edc7fc10b5198c3f6f8de965091a.htm
That's a link to a list of store closings. Looks like everything in Georgia is going away. Liquidation sales start Wednesday 11/5.
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I am not sure that you understand something here...your assumption is that all people who stand in line to buy tickets or things to resell on Black Friday are trying to make a buck in every situation in their lives.
Valid point. No disputing they are trying to make an extra buck or two in that situation, though?
People who are already making lots of money don't waste their time standing in line for hours to make a few hundred dollars.
No, but anybody who is smart with their money doesn't just blow it all paying retail or worse (regardless of how much money they have).
If you talk to those in the reseller community you will find that most of us need this money just as much as some people need these material things that they are buying for their friends and family members.
I was never intending to play up the consumer lifestyle in this country.
I don't feel that I need the things I get at Best Buy on Black Friday, but I do feel that I need the money that I make on Black Friday to buy nominal Christmas gifts for my friends and family. I cannot imagine buying something as expensive as a laptop (even a $229 laptop) for my kids for Christmas.
What is it you are buying then? Just selling the free vouchers for whatever you can get?
I don't have that kind of money to spend on anyone on my list. Maybe the greed is really in the kids who expect this from their parents - and who teaches them this? Their parents - who are standing behind me in line on Black Friday. As resellers and people who buy tickets to make a buck because we feel we need it, we see these people as greedy.
Maybe they are greedy. However, I find it difficult to believe that anyone can really read what I have written here and tell me that I am greedy.
I am learning what the concept of "agree to disagree" is all about now.
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So if i am a 45 year old single parent with 2 young kids and can't get up that early to wait to get a ticket for a wii, you think it's wrong for me to pay a kid to go stand in line for me to get it.
I don't think that is a huge problem. Depending on how much you're paying them, it may not make financial sense. I don't have a problem with a 1-for-1 thing, as far as going in/out of the line regardless of whether somebody is being paid or not.
If you're paying them to hold your spot all night long and they are getting vouchers as well, then the gray area is beginning to get darker for me. However, as long as they are letting everybody know that you will be joining them later then it's not deceptive to those who are trying to keep up with the line. The real problem, to me, is when 1 person is holding spots for 5 or 6 people who roll up just in time for vouchers.
It is pretty clear that I have a different world view than some of you. When I am in a line, I see a bunch of people that are in the same boat together that hopefully are trying to accomplish similar goals. I don't believe that I need to be inserting myself as a barrier to what somebody wants to buy. I will get vouchers for the items I intend to buy and give others the opportunity to buy what they waited for. Far from being selfish as some in here try to describe me, it seems selfless and generous. It seems more selfish for someone to seize their money making opportunity without a thought or concern for anybody else there. The "me first" attitude that has led to many of the challenges our society will eventually have to address in a meaningful way. This 'dog eat dog' way of life is going to continue to cause more problems than it solves.
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That question would then be answered by saying are any laws being broken. Why can't i pay someone to go wait in line for me. how about a group of people tag teaming, one stays the other leaves for a little while, comes back and the next leaves.
Maybe for you. I happen to think that determining your ethics by whether something is legal or not means you don't have any ethics at all, or at least the lowest standard available. Do what makes you happy. Keep in mind that I don't recall saying any of this should be illegal. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying I think it reflects poorly on those that do it and is below my ethical standards. If it seems like a great thing to do to you, then go do it. You obviously don't need or want my approval.
Rotating 1 person out of a group all night long seems fine. 1 person holding a spot all night for a group of people is something I would find objectionable. It also clearly goes against the 'working hard' argument presented elsewhere in the thread.
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The US proposal calls for this reporting to take place only when people sell more than several thousand dollars worth of merchandise in a year.
I know that. My point is that it would seem to refute the concept that all the sellers are playing by the rules.
It is true that you do not have to report earnings of $600 or less from resale as well.
This is $600 or less for the entire year, right? Not all transactions of $600 or less.
If someone is buying a Wii to sell it on ebay for $200 profit they can do so, and the ethical card would come in if they KNEW that the person behind them was a parent who can't get their children the gift, but coming from experience every line ive stood in on thanksgivings and black friday's, I always here people asking if they could sell that on Ebay and make money. So giving up your spot in line or ticket may be giving it to a ebayer or reseller.
That wasn't the case where I was. There wasn't anybody around me that was talking about turning anything into cash. They were either buying items as gifts or addressing needs. May have helped that I went to a Best Buy in a college town where there were primarily students in line hoping to get discounted computers for use with school and parents that don't make a lot of money that saw a chance to get something special at a great price. We weren't a bunch of people trying to figure out how to make money out of it.
The word ethical in business is not black and white. Is it unethical for Wal-Mart to charge $700 for a bundled wii? If you were in their shoes would you do it?, and remember that the shareholders are breathing down your neck. Like another person stated, it's a capatilistic society. These people are working five times as hard as any of us, standing in the cold for 3 days straight just to make $200. Questioning how the person will use their purchase or how the person may be "stealing" the gift away from your family is pretty selfish to me.
Any business can have any ethics it wants to have. Just because many choose to compromise them, or not have any at all, doesn't make it impossible. I understand how hard it is for public companies to care about anything beyond the dollar bill because of the greedy way that Wall Street works, though. Just because greed drives the stock market does not mean that is the way things should be. You can be a capitalist without trying to make a buck in every situation in your life. It's the idea that you've got to make money on everything that had a hospital trying to convince my mom to pull the plug on my stepfather 6 months ago, and now he is at home trying to get his life back together. They determined his care was not cost-effective and decided he should be dead. When every action in the world is determined by how much money you can make on it, you're going to get a lot of unintended consequences. I know I am comparing apples to oranges here, but it always starts small with something relatively innocuous. Then one day it becomes an Enron type situation where any concept of ethical standards are tossed aside in favor of making more money.
I don't know that I ever suggested any of it was theft or that I have been denied anything. Something does not become the 'right thing to do' with me just because it is hard to do. I'm not sure I would ever buy into that logic. I don't really care if you think my ethical standards are selfish, although I cannot see how you ever arrived at such a position. I never once said that I should get something instead of them. You're just one more person who can't think outside of their little box. Just because I find something to be unethical or wrong does not mean I have ever been wronged by it or am seeking to benefit at their loss in some way.
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Isure, if it wasn't ok, people wouldn't pay the money they do. Just my opinion
Is anything that people are willing to pay for ok then, in your opinion? Does the fact that somebody is willing to pay for it make it a good thing to do without any other consideration?
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I never said eBay business was not valid. I said selling of vouchers is not a valid business, IMO. I also said there are many eBay sellers that are essentially black marketers. I'm not the only one that thinks so. The IRS does, as well.
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Lindstrom - don't you think you are assuming a bit much by making the statements that ebay sellers aren't paying taxes?? Do you know that for a fact? Why not go to the discussion boards on ebay and take a look around. Many sellers are BIG advocates for paying taxes and running their businesses professionally. Do you walk into a brick and mortar place of business and assume they aren't paying taxes? Why do that to an online seller or an auction seller?
I make that statement from personal experience and based on reports in the media.
As for the ticket sellers if they are making less than $600 they don't need to pay taxes on that money anyway. That is the cap on whether a company sends out an 1099.
I'll check on this. It is not my understanding that a 1099 must be issued for you to report the income. It just means it is easier for you to cheat without it. In most jurisdictions, once you begin selling products or services, you are considered to be a sole proprietor. I'm not aware of the exception from income taxes as long as everything you sell costs less than $600.
Lets remember many people buying items to sell are doing this so they can have the money or purchase items for their own families. This is their income. Why are we faulting them for making an income?
I am not saying they cannot make an income at all. I am saying that I don't find it to be a valid business.
If you don't like it then don't do it but don't knock the people who are.
How does that work? Are you saying we should apply that to everything in the world? I'm not saying people can't do it. I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm not going to pretend that I think selling free vouchers is an ethical thing to do, but I wouldn't call in the government to do something about it either.
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It doesn't matter what you think of the tax system in this nation. If somebody is going to put their actions under the "business" umbrella, they should act like a business. That, to me, means following all the rules that a real business would be subjected to. I don't agree with the current tax laws, but that doesn't mean I can say the things I do are "just business" while breaking the law. If Best Buy decided to just not properly account for the income from the items they sold, they could end up losing everything. It's not something a legitimate business finds to be optional.
You can only really get away with claiming the profit on an item if you keep a receipt for the original expense of the item. If you aren't keeping that for a proper cost-basis, it won't make it through an IRS audit and they will consider the proceeds to be entirely reportable income.
It has nothing to do with garage sales. I am specifically referring to people that claim they are engaging in business. Garage sales are not businesses, generally speaking. Do you honestly think any significant number of people are getting vouchers for BF items and quickly selling them at a garage sale? How many are buying BF items with the intention of selling them in a garage sale? Very few, if any. I question the veracity of the claim that most eBay members report their income. I personally know 5 people who routinely sell items via eBay and none of them report a penny of that income. They are black market all the way.
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What is the difference in values between someone who purchases to sell on ebay vs someone who purchases for themselves? I am curious.
One is purchasing to use an item. The other is purchasing as a 'business' opportunity. If I thought everybody who treated it as a 'business' opportunity actually handled the accounting like a business would, I might not have as much of a problem with it.
This country is a capitalistic society. Companies aren't in business to help people out of the goodness of their heart - they are in business to make money. It is about the bottom line - why fault someone for trying to make their own way on their own?
Because most of these people are trying to "make their own way" in the black market. A real business would claim the income. Are they?
Also how is selling tickets any different than paying someone to stand in line for you?
I wouldn't do either of those, so it may be hard for me to say what the differences are.
If I knew that somebody would have been next to get that ticket and it was something they might not otherwise be able to afford and was hoping to get it for their children (for example), I would not be so proud and greedy that I'd turn to them and say, "Early bird gets the worm!" and sell it to somebody else. Ultimately, we are all in this world together and some concern for others is not going to prevent you from living your life.
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Selling what belongs to you (if you aquired it legally) makes it perfectly okay to sell it if you want. It doesn't necessarily become a moral issue unless one is cheating in order to aquire the item. Line jumping is cheating.
In this country, not claiming the income from selling that item is illegal and makes it a black market enterprise, though. I'm sure you would claim that income, right?
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Those that complain are those who aren't willing and desperate enough to wait longer than others in the front.
Not true. I've never waited in a line and not been able to get what I came for, but I still think some of this other stuff is wrong. It is a misconception that opposition to something is entirely because you got the short end of the stick. Sometimes it is because you have a different set of values.
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The every man for himself mentality inside the store throws off any morality issues outside the store, in regard to tickets and fair play.
It's a shame that it has to be that way. It comes with this 'consumer economy' we have, I suppose. This 'competition' thing brings out the worst characteristics in many people.
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I think it is reprehensible and greedy to sell something like a doorbuster ticket. Karma, anyone?
Some people see everything in life as competition and are determined to "win." I doubt anything we say here is going to change their minds.
The one thing I do wonder is who sets the price for these things. Are those of you selling the tickets merely responding to an offer for money, or are you deciding the price? Not that I feel either is truly legitimate, but I am a little curious.
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Oh, and one more thing.....as far as selling on e-bay just to make a buck....When you sell anything, anywhere its to make a buck.....BB uses the door buster program to get you in the store to make an additional purchase, "just to make a buck". Its capitalism...Why do think they dont sell the door busters online...
At least Best Buy has to report their income, unlike many of these fly-by-night black marketers on eBay will do. Regardless of what people may think of the tax laws, claiming 'capitalism' and "smart business" without claiming the income is anything but a real business. It's a gray market enterprise at best and black market at worst. A real business that operated like this would eventually be shutdown by the IRS.
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its a whining complaint of those who simply wont put in the time an effort to get up and go get in line and then think they "deserve" something...
I waited for 9-10 hours last year and I could have had a ticket for just about every doorbuster. I got one ticket for the one doorbuster item I intended to buy. I walk the walk and it has nothing to do with 'deserving' anything or not being willing to put in the time. Tell yourself whatever you have to in order to justify your position, but don't project onto others the things that you do not know for certain. Not everybody with ethical standards higher than yours is some whiner with a sense of entitlement. Some of them just live a life not governed by the dollar bill and find behavior driven solely by acquisition of money to be a demonstration of greed.
It seems clear that no view can be changed in this thread, and I'm not sure that would even be desirable. People have to want to live differently in order to do so and not just read comments from somebody who does.
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Apple uses price controls, for whatever reason. As long as Apple gets the same cut, why not let a store sell it at a loss if they want to? Things like this serve only to slow Apple's growth in the market.
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I bought one online...
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It's called Capitalism! And the police officers were standing within 5 ft. while we were making our transactions. When I left they laughed and asked if I got my TV's for Free! It's not illegal, it's not unethical, it is a fair trade of time for money.
It's not unethical for you, obviously, but to claim that everyone has the same ethical standards as you would be a mistake. Do what makes you happy, but don't expect that everyone else approves of it.
Your story about the police doesn't mean much to me. When my wife and I were hit by a drunk driver and I had a full description of the driver, the vehicle, and the license plate number, they never did anything about it. We even had a witness. While this is a different police force, it is clear to me that they aren't a real arbiter of right/wrong. They selectively enforce laws. Besides that, if your ethics are defined by what is legal then you really have no ethical standard at all. Legal/illegal is the lowest standard available.
Amazon.com Black Friday Sale [Now Online!]
in 2010
Posted